OT: US President (US Dom Players only)

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by lch

I just remembered something, and that is a story that I read in my newspaper almost exactly three months ago, about Obama's journey through life and his supporters. Among it was the heart-warming story about him visiting his old Highschool Punahou in Honolulu on December 17th in 2004, where he spent his time from 1971 (5th grade) to 1979 (12th grade). His supervisor and liaison teacher at the time, Eric Kusunoki, embarrassedly remembers how the 13-year-old Obama offered "You may call me Barry" after Kusunoki pronounced his first name like "barracks". Yes, Barry was his nickname. No, it wasn't anything else. I'd like to see a copy of that kenyan birth certificate. You should probably know by now that you're better off by assuming that that one is a manufactured forgery, instead of the Hawaiian one, like you should have assumed it in the first place. No matter how strongly you may wish that it was the other way around.

There never was a court trial, hence he never had to or even could submit it before court. How long does it take you to pierce that into your skull?

Regarding the validity of his Hawaiian birth certificate, see my previous post on the page before.

Dude, you are either not reading my posts or english is not your first language.

I *understand* that there was never a trial.

The *reason* there was no trial was because obama/the dnc made a motion to dismiss which was granted by the judge. Said dismissal was for lack of standing.

Obama could have (I would say should have) simply said - hey judge here's my birth certificate.

Understand - the judge didn't say - obama is a citizen. What he said was, Mr. Berg - you don't have cause to seek redress.

In other words, the question of whether Obama is actually a citizen has never been answered in a court.

[lch]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Dude, you are either not reading my posts or english is not your first language.

I wonder if you are really reading mine. Let me quote my own post again since you seem to have troubles finding it:

Originally Posted by lch

Obama's campaign released his birth certificate on June 13, 2008 and launched a fact-check Web site named Fightthesmears.com in response to allegations that he doesn't have a valid birth certificate, and in response to allegations that he would be muslim (which isn't true as well). The state's Department of Health director of Hawai‘i released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.

That underlined sentence there is a link to a Web site, BTW. If you hover your mouse over it and click, you can quickly check my statement. Or you may seek other sources that give the same information. I think my Google query was something as ingenious as "Obama birth certificate valid" or so.

I'd like you to always add sources to your statements from now on, too, since it's a hassle to go through Google and find out again and again that they're not facts but conspiracy babble. That Kenyan birth certificate would be a good start, I can't find it. And I'd like you to show your own birth certificate, too, since apparently that's customary.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by lch

I wonder if you are really reading mine. Let me quote my own post again since you seem to have troubles finding it:

That underlined sentence there is a link to a Web site, BTW. If you hover your mouse over it and click, you can quickly check my statement. Or you may seek other sources that give the same information. I think my Google query was something as ingenious as "Obama birth certificate valid" or so.

I'd like you to always add sources to your statements from now on, too, since it's a hassle to go through Google and find out again and again that they're not facts but conspiracy babble. That Kenyan birth certificate would be a good start, I can't find it. And I'd like you to show your own birth certificate, too, since apparently that's customary.

Dude, I cannot believe you are continuing this argument.

1. There have now been THREE lawsuits on this same topic.
Source: your own kitv article. This is madness.

2. Some Democratic functionaire saying 'yes he has a legitimate' birth certificate is of *no* legal validity. Releasing a document on a webs site is of *no* legal validity.

It is a *court's* perview to settle the question. In a court, the plaintiff and the defendent could provide their own experts - and the credentials of each other can be questioned or not.

I am not taking any position on whether Obama is a citizen.

I am saying:

A. Any candidate should have to prove his qualifications.
B. Obama should have just released his birth certificate to the court, instead of squashing the suit on techical grounds.

If you want to argue with me - address those two points. I don't even see how anyone can think otherwise.

There have now been three *stupid* and time wasting lawsuits on this stupid subject. How many do we have to have? How does that help anyone? Its a big enough deal to enough people.

Obama wants to be a politician for all the people? How does it hurt anyone if he submits a birth certificate to the court *AND IT WOULD MAKE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TRUST HIM MORE*. Some of them would simply say.. huh... I guess he is eligible. Great.

You apparently think I want to discredit him as president. At the present time - I would rather he HAD a birth certificate rather than he didn't. Read it again. I would rather he had one than he didn't.

But yeah, I think a citizen has a right to know that a candidate meets the qualifications of the office.

There is a logical tactic called Reductio ad absurdum - lets use it now.

Suppose the republican party nominated Putin to be president of the United States and Karl Rove said.. yes I've seen his birth certificate. And somehow.. Putin leads in the polls. (An even better example might be renominating GWBush)

Are you really expecting me to believe that you would find that OK? You'd wouldn't want to see that in court... wouldn't expect it go to court? I know *I* would.

I think you're a liar if you say yes, you'd just accept it. So give those on the opposite side of the equation the same respect and the same rights that you'd hope to enjoy for your side.

[lch]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Dude, I cannot believe you are continuing this argument.

I can't believe that you still try to evade admitting that you were wrong.

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

1. There have now been THREE lawsuits on this same topic.
Source: your own kitv article. This is madness.

Contrary to you, I'm at least quoting a well-respected news site from a broadcasting company instead of weblogs or other unfunded sources, if any at all. I gave you the option to find further sources through Google to verify this yourself, too, should I add another dozen links that tell the same story? But wait, why don't you do your homework yourself?

Where's that Kenyan birth certificate, BTW? Or evidence for some of the other myths that you brought up, and which I debunked?

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

2. Some Democratic functionaire saying 'yes he has a legitimate' birth certificate is of *no* legal validity.

A statement by the Department of Health's director for verification is good enough for a layman like me unless somebody successfully disproves this in court. I don't see how the political position of the Department of Health's director matters. Yeah, "unfortunately", he is a Democrat. There's a 50/50 chance for that, perhaps a little more so if he's from Hawai'i. So what? As you already said, the prosecution is a Democrat, too.

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Releasing a document on a webs site is of *no* legal validity.

Apparently some rumor on the web is good enough for you to challenge legal validity, though.

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

A. Any candidate should have to prove his qualifications.
B. Obama should have just released his birth certificate to the court, instead of squashing the suit on techical grounds.

If you want to argue with me - address those two points. I don't even see how anyone can think otherwise.

ad A.: like McCain, too. Remember that Obama wasn't the only one with allegations of unsure citizenship. Not that I'd think there would be reason to doubt that.
ad B.: the one that squashed the case was the judge. Regardless if there was a hearing or not, what the judge decides is what's "right". I'm not a lawyer, but I'd suppose that if a judge dismisses a case then that doesn't have to do with the defendant evading a trial, but, and let me quote you here again:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

There have now been three *stupid* and time wasting lawsuits on this stupid subject. How many do we have to have? How does that help anyone? Its a big enough deal to enough people.

... but, continuing my sentence from above, to avoid a nonsensical lawsuit with no sign of success that does little more but waste the time of the defendant, the judge, the jury, and the taxpayer's money over a lunatic's pipe dream.

As I already said, Berg brought the case before the US Supreme Court now. Let's see what they say about it.

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

There is a logical tactic called Reductio ad absurdum - lets use it now.

[some hypothetical scenario and calling me a liar]

I don't see how this matters. Desperation? And I'm really getting tired when I have to repeat myself for people that are too slow or too stubborn to admit that their arguments are groundless and that they have to take them back. I already gave you the choice between humble pie or crow to eat.

Somebody else fight the tin-foil hat people from here on, please. Unless chrispedersen admits that he's at a fault and/or apologizes, I don't care anymore.