Formations, Strategies, Etc. -- The ***** List

[Dogberry]

Originally posted by Grandpakim:
Massive mounted Wave Motion guns vs. mine warheads III. There may be more. I haven't checked. A bug that should be fixed. Very unbalancing and unbelievably unrealistic.

" unrealistic " ?? !!! .. methinks that you take this far too seriously.

Just a few things....

- A lot of this seems to amount to "my bamma-alang a ding-dong can beat your gamma flippity flop". All this exotica is neat, but sometimes I wonder what it has to do with strategy.

- That all of these pieces of software fit together & even seem to work ( sometimes ) is close to miraculous. It will be a while .. I think, before the best way to approach simultaneous movement, in a game like this, is worked out.

- Too much "modding" in the wrong places is an invitation for gamers to try to rig things in their favor. My guess is that what is simple ( at this scale ) should usually work the best.

woof !

Dog

[Suicide Junkie]

Oh, yeah, I just remembered!

In the next patch that will not be a problem, since mine damage will stack. Two warheads will be able to destroy that MM-WMG together.

[Grandpa Kim]

Originally posted by oleg:
Grandpakim, your gripes about Se IV military are not justified.

War is a messy business. "No plan survives first encounter with enmy" von Klausewitz (sorry for any mistakes/typos). Relax and imagine yourself as Roosevelt on December 12. You are a supreme leader of your people but still, you can not sort out every single ship position on every skirmish !
SE IV is a strategic game, not a some sort of Total Annihilation !

That is absolutely true ... about the real world. I wish I KNEW it was true for SEIV; I would prefer the "human" element be in there. But as far a I know, the game is supposed to work as advertised. If there are "human elements" like cowardice and a cowboy factor, Malfador has carefully kept it secret from me.

So, your critisism is valid but it is directed on negligible part of immense SE IV universe.

Kinda reminds me of the guy who died from nothing serious.

Dogberry:

For the most part, you lost me completely. If you care to, try talking down to my level.

S.J. Great news about the mine fix! Thanks for the info.

[Dogberry]

K... sorry if I got a little esoteric. My points are:

This game is 99.9% pure fantasy.. "unrealistic" is a somewhat laughable description in this context.

Alot of what you are griping about.. will work itself out, over time.

I believe that .. just from reading some of the threads here, there is sometimes, a tendancy to idolise "stuff" .. over gameplay.

That's just my .02 cents worth.

cheers,

Dog

[Mephisto]

[quote]Originally posted by Grandpakim:
To you modders: Its great that you want to improve the game by modding, but how about we get the unmodded game fixed first.

Well, to be immodestly, in my AI testing I found many things that need/ed fixing and many of "my" suggestions even made it into patches (for example the AI_unit.txt). But Aaron can only do so much in his time and some things will just have to wait for SE5.

Formations! Formations are just barely moddable, and just barely work.

Yea, but one can live without them. But you are right.

The entire fleet went after the planet, the satellites and the two bases with a vengeance!

For a blockade use the "capture planet" strategy and "don't break formation". Works wonders and the ships will not bomb the planet.

Here's a cute one, and not really a bug at all. I call it the "First Player Disadvantage". In any simul game, player no. l moves first. To be sure this can often be an advantage, but try chasing down a fleet moving the same speed as yours. Your fleet moves onto his fleet... and his fleet IMMEDIATELY moves away with NO BATTLE resulting. So, your fleet then moves onto his fleet and his fleet again immediately moves away. You can keep this up for a thousand years and never catch the bugger.

There is no difference if you are flying into sector A and the enemy is leaving sector A right after you have entered it or if the enemy leaves sector A just before you move into sector A. Or is there? I cannot see the problem here.

"Combat occurs every five days."

Each month is separated into 30 days. These 30 days are divided by your movement points. The result is the day of the month you will move on.

30 days
6 movement points
Result: Movement every 5 days

30 days
10 movement points
Result: Movement every 3 days

Quite simple and quite realistic. It's the same system "Star Fleet Battles" uses.

I have seen too many examples of opposing ships/fleets sitting in the same sector for a turn or two and not fight at all beyond the initial battle.[QB]

Because you will only fight a battle if you are called to move.

[QB]There should be an easy way to group fighters.

I totally agree on this one but we won't see it in SE4 IMHO.

Well, I think I've stirred up enough sh** for one day. And I'm sure I'll get lambasted for this bit of nastiness. Go ahead, do your worst. I do believe I'm ready to defend my views.

We can talk about anything as long as one has a valid point (isn't trolling) to argue about. So why should we flame you?

[Dogberry]

IMHO .. if the placement of ships within a formation becomes more sophisticated..it should still adhere to some simple principles and variations thereof.

That is, heavies to the front & or center, lights to the flank, ancillaries & auxillaries to the rear. You can theoretically play with this a bit with such old historical formations such as "echelon left or right" .. or refuse flank .

Again, just my .02 cents.

Dog

[Alpha Kodiak]

Originally posted by Grandpakim:
To you modders: Its great that you want to improve the game by modding, but how about we get the unmodded game fixed first. Had your energies been devoted to this, by your own modding but mostly by contacting Aaron and pointing out the flaws, I wouldn't be writing this.

First, Aaron has probably been just about completely buried in Messages from various players (modders and otherwise) over the Last couple of years (or more). The game has changed dramatically during that time frame. I have never seen a game where the players have had so much input into how the game works.

Second, people do not always agree on what the correct solution is. Read the "New Patch?" thread and its discussion of engine overloading weapons to see the problem. Other than to make it moddable (sp?), there is no solution that will make everyone happy.

Most of the points you brought up are not new. And, they are slowly being addressed. The big gripe with formations used to be that it didn't have enough slots for a large fleet. That has been addressed. As SJ pointed out, the mine issues are being addressed. There are still more issues, some of which may never get addressed, but it is not because the modders are wasting our time on our own little mods. (Of course, we are not getting paid to fix the game, so really, where we spend our time - a LOT of time - and energy is our own business, not yours.)