Re: ammo cannisters

[gila]

It's possible to load them on halftracks,but not air transport as they are too heavy in a Douglas??
Everyone knows ammo was air dropped in WW2 so why can't cannisters?

[thatguy96]

Its how the unit's coded, probably to prevent people from dropping artillery. An ammo canister requires a carry capacity of at least 106. If the carry capacity of the C-47 was 128 instead of 28 it could do this, but it could then also drop mortars and light artillery.

[RERomine]

Yes, they did air drop ammo but it was probably packed differently than in a crate. They used more specialized drop canisters than a wooden box. Yes, the game name is "ammo canister", but they do appear to be boxes to me in the pictures. Setting the C-47 to a carry capacity of 28 rather than 128 keeps people from air dropping antitank guns and the like, as stated by thatguy96. Those types of weapons were delivered by gliders, which could carry them and ammo crates as well. Gliders seem to have no trouble loading in the crates, or for that matter, ammo trucks and M3 ammo tracks.

I'm not sure you can edit the OOB to get around this either. The weight of an ammo canister is zero, same as an infantry unit, so the code must restrict loading ammo carrier types(56) on parachute transport types(60). That being the case, if you really need ammo dropped with your troops, I would buy a glider

[thatguy96]

Originally Posted by RERomine

I'm not sure you can edit the OOB to get around this either. The weight of an ammo canister is zero, same as an infantry unit, so the code must restrict loading ammo carrier types(56) on parachute transport types(60). That being the case, if you really need ammo dropped with your troops, I would buy a glider

Negative. Canisters show "0" but for some odd reason they're not. Their crew is also not relative to their actual weight. They require a carry capacity of 106 or more. I had to figure this out by incrementally increasing carry capacity in WinSPMBT while modding, and I just set the carry capacity to 128 in WinSPWWII and the C-47 could carry the canister just fine.

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by thatguy96

Negative. Canisters show "0" but for some odd reason they're not. Their crew is also not relative to their actual weight. They require a carry capacity of 106 or more. I had to figure this out by incrementally increasing carry capacity in WinSPMBT while modding, and I just set the carry capacity to 128 in WinSPWWII and the C-47 could carry the canister just fine.

I tried the same thing and C-47s will also carry and 90mm AA guns as well. Two of them, in fact. I bet those were fun to shove out the side door

The problem is if you slap a 1 in front of the 28, you have now given the C-47 the ability to carry large guns. Even if you reduce the number to 106, you still can drop small antitank guns, such as the 57mm. Essentially, you have found out that the ammo canister weighs roughly the same as a 57mm ATG. Yes, you could manhandle an ammo canister out the side door of a C-47 much easier than you could an antitank gun, but you have effectively give them the same air drop capability.

If you are creating a scenario where you can prevent that kind of misuse of the new ability of the C-47, that works fine. You just have to hope the ammo canister falls where you want it, because without at least a jeep, it's going to stay where it falls. Realistically, once you got the canister on the ground, the ammo could be removed and moved, but the game won't let you do that without some sort of transport. The funny thing about those ammo canisters is they probably are heavier than they appear, since they seem to have an endless supply of ammo in them

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Ultimately, it's up to you what you want to do and more power to you

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by thatguy96

Negative. Canisters show "0" but for some odd reason they're not. Their crew is also not relative to their actual weight. They require a carry capacity of 106 or more. I had to figure this out by incrementally increasing carry capacity in WinSPMBT while modding, and I just set the carry capacity to 128 in WinSPWWII and the C-47 could carry the canister just fine.

Ammo units are are ammo carrier unit class.

The ammo carrier is a vehicle class.

We wrote special kludge code for loading them that allows loading containers onto a 1XX load class as if guns/weapons rather than a 2XX class. (That it is a container and not an ammo truck is determined from crew count and I think unit size, and having speed 0).

(With the new loading code for air drops, these as crewed units will likely also now split into an abandoned unit and a crew which both parachute separately and need to be re-linked on landing, assuming no casualties, to work.)

Cheers
Andy

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Ammo units are are ammo carrier unit class.

The ammo carrier is a vehicle class.

We wrote special kludge code for loading them that allows loading containers onto a 1XX load class as if guns/weapons rather than a 2XX class. (That it is a container and not an ammo truck is determined from crew count and I think unit size, and having speed 0).

(With the new loading code for air drops, these as crewed units will likely also now split into an abandoned unit and a crew which both parachute separately and need to be re-linked on landing, assuming no casualties, to work.)

Cheers
Andy

But wouldnt sepparating the cannister from its crew make it even more vulnerable than it already is? unless the crew is given at least a SMG or old rifle so it can defend itself from enemy, like all other crews, they got a pistol and 4 grenades, shouldnt crews have a weapon to defend themselves?Pistol wont help much

[DRG]

As we have said, a crew is a crew no matter where it comes from and a crew is not a fighting unit without the weapon/vehicle it crews.

We could play " yeahbut " games forever on this subject.... "Yeah but the crew needs a way to defend itself " so what ? If we arm crews with rifles and SMG's then ALL crews would get them and that might make some people happy and other will rightly point out that a crew that just bailed out of a tank isn't a ground combat effective team and should not and WOULD NOT join in the ground fighting.

So....... we tweak the game a bit so that vehicles and crewed weapons will be separated when they are pushed out of an air transport. It's a compromise that improves on past practice where a vehicle was ready to go the second it touched the ground. Was that realistic ?? No but this goes a long way to sorting out that issue which , in game terms, for most players, very, very minor. I doubt in SPWW2 any more than a few people will even care or notice as there are NO air transports capable of carrying and dropping a vehicle and very VERY few "gun" units air transportable.

MBT it's a different issue and this goes a long way to simulate that you don't just drop a vehicle from an aircraft and drive it away.

The best "protection" for the crews is to stay out of situation that would require a rifle.

Don

[thatguy96]

I actually like the idea of separating crews and vehicles when they're dropped. I can see it being frustrating, but it is closer to what actually happens.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by thatguy96

I actually like the idea of separating crews and vehicles when they're dropped. I can see it being frustrating, but it is closer to what actually happens.

yea, the idea is great, but i think they might need "escorts" jumping out with them, so, will the planes after loading up the gun still have some carry capacity?(maybe 6 men left is eneough)