Quick Questions

[GeneralChaos]

After rereading the Oil rules, I might have forgot something. I believe it states that the Allied capture of Formosa, Luzon, and Leyte can only cancel the effect of the Japanese capture of Borneo, Java, and Singapore. So you cannot have more -1s than +1s. So in effect, the Oil usage can never go lower than -1 (the original start value).

So with Luzon and Leyte Allied at the start(and Singapore, Java, and Borneo too), the real oil usage number should be -2. But rule comes into effect and makes it -1 at start.

[AlanBernardo]

Originally Posted by GeneralChaos

After rereading the Oil rules, I might have forgot something. I believe it states that the Allied capture of Formosa, Luzon, and Leyte can only cancel the effect of the Japanese capture of Borneo, Java, and Singapore. So you cannot have more -1s than +1s. So in effect, the Oil usage can never go lower than -1 (the original start value).

So with Luzon and Leyte Allied at the start(and Singapore, Java, and Borneo too), the real oil usage number should be -2. But rule comes into effect and makes it -1 at start.

All I know is that capturing Luzon does nothing to the numbers. The explanation of the oil victory condition in the game is confusing, to say the least.

In the manual, on page 6, it says:

"There are three bases that provide oil for Japan. They are Borneo, Singapore, and Java. Each one will provide one point of oil. Japan consumes one point per month, so by securing all the oil bases, you can increase your oil reserve by two per month."

This is simple enough, but it doesn't mention the three bases that subtract from Japan's supply.

I'll run a test, and see if getting Allied control of Luzon does anything to the numbers.


Alan

[AlanBernardo]

Okay, so after turn one was over, I sent the Allied Convoy from the West Coast to Luzon. A green line showed, so according to the manual the convoy should get to Luzon.

Resolving the turn, Luzon hasn't grown a bit, and there is no message stating that Luzon got any bigger.

I tried a second time with the same results. On the third try I sent the Convoy from the West Coast to Luzon along with some other ships from Singapore.

Luzon didn't seem to grow one bit. For the fourth turn I again sent the Convoy in a TF to Luzon, this time creating another TF with one Light Cruiser.

The CL arrived in Luzon and stayed there. The Convoy had no affect on supplies.

This all doesn't seem right.


Alan

[alejes02]

Luzon is in a "hornet's nest" of Japanese bases. I believe that proximity to Japanese bases affect the rate at which a base can build. I've noticed this same effect in other bases--the further from a Japanese base (particularly a MAJOR Japanese base) the quicker the base builds.

[ScottWAR]

That sounds like something that should have been mentioned in the rulebook.......... or could also be construed as the old developers line "its not a bug its a feature."

[Herode]

Also, you must notice the Luzon is very far form West Coast. Distance affects effectiveness of TFs, maybe it has the same effect on convoys ? That being said, if you try to supply some closer base than Luzon, convoys are efficient.

Patrolling bases with a small single ship TF also has some effect, although pretty slow. At least I had some results with the Japanese. I've not checked yet for Allies.

As for the oil victory condition : Leyte has to be conquered before Japan is allowed to attack Borneo. Once you control Borneo, you have to repair the base and make it functionnal one full turn before the +1 oil bonus comes. But as long as Allies control Leyte (-1 oil), your -1 overall malus remains. You'll have to capture and repair Borneo or to capture Leyte before your oil supply rate switches to 0. But if my memories are right, if Allies re-capture Leyte, the -1 to bonus applies again even is Leyte is not repaired to be functionnal.

And now, my question.

The rules state that if a population center is bombed (Ceylan, Brisbane, etc.), then the owning player must patrol this center 1-4 month with at least 25% of his navy. Okay. But what happens if he does not patrol or doesn't use enough PV for patrolling ????

[AlanBernardo]

Originally Posted by Herode

Also, you must notice the Luzon is very far form West Coast. Distance affects effectiveness of TFs, maybe it has the same effect on convoys ? That being said, if you try to supply some closer base than Luzon, convoys are efficient.

Patrolling bases with a small single ship TF also has some effect, although pretty slow. At least I had some results with the Japanese. I've not checked yet for Allies.

Okay, I've done further tests and sending all ships from all areas to patrol Luzon does not rebuild the base one bit. I did this for four turns. Also, sending a single small ship (CL) from the West Coast to Luzon arrives and stays in Luzon. One would think that if that Light Carrier can reach Luzon from such a distance, a Convoy should be able to also, and have some affect on how large Luzon gets.

I'd have to say almost conclusively that something is wrong with Luzon, in that no matter what it can't be built up.

I did send the Convoy from the West Coast to Midway, along with some other larger ships. The base did grow, but not immediately. It took two turns.

As for the oil victory condition : Leyte has to be conquered before Japan is allowed to attack Borneo. Once you control Borneo, you have to repair the base and make it functionnal one full turn before the +1 oil bonus comes. But as long as Allies control Leyte (-1 oil), your -1 overall malus remains. You'll have to capture and repair Borneo or to capture Leyte before your oil supply rate switches to 0. But if my memories are right, if Allies re-capture Leyte, the -1 to bonus applies again even is Leyte is not repaired to be functionnal.

Yes, this is the way things happen in the game. But that's not what the manual says nor what the Victory Condition explanation says in the game.

And now, my question.

The rules state that if a population center is bombed (Ceylan, Brisbane, etc.), then the owning player must patrol this center 1-4 month with at least 25% of his navy. Okay. But what happens if he does not patrol or doesn't use enough PV for patrolling ????

Sorry, I don't have an answer for this.

I know it's the weekend and all, but do the developers typically show on the forums? There are some odd things happening in this game, and some things need clarification.

I'd also like to know a little more about how new scenarios can be created. I do like this overall game engine. Now a later expansion that could add research and unit-building elements to the game would really be an improvement.

Alan

[Herode]

[snip]

[ScottWAR]

Well, in the demo I have started turns with a lot of my ships in Brisbane, or West Coast when I DID NOT mve them there the previous turn. Now that I have the game I know what happened,... the game moved them there on its on when I didnt, to fulfill the patrol requirements.

So move the ships yourself or take the chance the AI will move ships you dont want back to the population center.

[AlanBernardo]

Originally Posted by alejes02

Luzon is in a "hornet's nest" of Japanese bases. I believe that proximity to Japanese bases affect the rate at which a base can build. I've noticed this same effect in other bases--the further from a Japanese base (particularly a MAJOR Japanese base) the quicker the base builds.

I don't know, three Convoy trips without moving a bit in the rebuilding aspect of things? Doesn't sound right. Plus, the Allies have Singapore, a major Allied base, at least in the area. Doesn't this at least neutralize things (Singapore, though farther away from Luzon than Formosa, is actually a bigger base.)?

Later on I'll try some tests with bases closer to the West Coast and away from this "hornet's nest".

Could it possibly be that Luzon is too far from the Convoy at the Allied West Coast base to have any influence? I would say no, since the one CL that I sent from the coast to Luzon arrived and stayed.

I'll stick with the hypothesis that Luzon can never be rebuilt by the Allies, which is either a bug or a design decision. I can't actually run any more Convoy trips to Luzon; the game will end because of Japan's oil situation. I can maybe run one more trip than I've tried so far, I think, but that's it.


Alan