Helheim - lets burn some rubber

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

...and once your economy is cranking 180 RP is a drop in the bucket....

A lot of your argument is somewhat persuasive, but unless you are talking about very large maps, with Hard/VH research, 180 points is a lot. Typically I find that many nations peak out at around 800 or so by the time they are completing their research. 180 is ~25% of that total, and talking about a jump from 600 to 800 is a big deal. But Baalz was talking about more than 20 Mentors.

However, that leads me to my problem with this scenario. To push 3 Mentors per month, you are looking at 21 Death gems needed every month, after your hammers. I have done a LOT of starts, and given the typical MP paradigm of 15 provinces/player, even on a good start where you end up with 20 provinces, and using remote (level 9) searches rather than manual searches, ~20 is typically the absolutely high end of Death gem income. I think it's entirely possible that manually searching all of your starting provinces may only net you ~10 or so income. Granted, you do get 4 in the cap, so baseline income will be higher, but it highlights my problem with strategies that are too highly defined, and too highly optimized. You are wholly reliant on getting a robust gem income to succeed - your build absolutely requires it, and if you don't get it, you are pretty invested into the game as far as your time goes, and left holding an empty bag.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

A lot of your argument is somewhat persuasive, but unless you are talking about very large maps, with Hard/VH research, 180 points is a lot. Typically I find that many nations peak out at around 800 or so by the time they are completing their research. 180 is ~25% of that total, and talking about a jump from 600 to 800 is a big deal. But Baalz was talking about more than 20 Mentors.

Yeah, I probably overstated the case against skull mentors here. 180 RP is never really "a drop in the bucket."

-Max

P.S. I agree with you, Jim, in that I'd rather have a flexible build (or nation) which can respond as luck and circumstances dictate, rather than having a set strategy before the game even starts. That said, Helheim is actually pretty good for just that kind of flexible play, especially with the E9N4W4 bless Baalz suggests. You can do everything from blood stones to Cloud-Trapezing thugs to Magma Eruption to Thunderstrike to Rigor Mortis to Stygian Paths. The only major hole that I miss in Helheim is Astral, but they have a lot of flexibility and mobility.