Operational Discussion

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Ignoring "best" results where the WH size adds extra (and are not there to bet the farm on) - the 88L71 and the 128kwk are both reliably producing 18 at 1400m (but both 20 at 1100, though 18 for the 88 and 20 for the 128 then till 1400) . Then the 88 starts to fall off more noticeably. So marginal over 1000, about the same under it, and real advantage to the 128 only starts at 1400.

A specialist gun for plinking Stalins at the longer ranges. I would prefer a straight Tiger 2 over Jagtigers in 97% of all cases. More stored kills.

Cheers
Andy

I suppose the info you just related is history and not game data correct? Because I had no idea the game would have guns declining in accuracy at different ranges unless one had longer range than the other. IOW, all 40 range guns would lose the same percentage from the highest accuracy, if they shot at the same hex. For example two guns of 40 range, fire at hexes 20 away. They both lose perhaps 40% accuracy, despite what their accuracy rating is. The one with the higher accuracy will always fire more accuractely, but they both lose the same percentage when they have the same maximum range. A range 50 gun, would lose less of a percentage than those two at hex 20.

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by Charles22

I suppose the info you just related is history and not game data correct? Because I had no idea the game would have guns declining in accuracy at different ranges unless one had longer range than the other. IOW, all 40 range guns would lose the same percentage from the highest accuracy, if they shot at the same hex. For example two guns of 40 range, fire at hexes 20 away. They both lose perhaps 40% accuracy, despite what their accuracy rating is. The one with the higher accuracy will always fire more accuractely, but they both lose the same percentage when they have the same maximum range. A range 50 gun, would lose less of a percentage than those two at hex 20.

Oh my goodnes Andy was talking about the game! I don't know how I didn't see it before, and for some reason I thought he was talking about guns with the same range. If my choice is between a gun with 50 AP rounds and one with 20, and their peformance is quite similar, especially against all but the super tank, as indeed the 88L71 is, then the 88 is my choice. Good to have an 128 or two for the uber-tanks though. Apparently Andy's thoughts exactly.

Does anybody know what range a gun's accuracy is stated for? The mid-range for the gun? I always thought (a guess) it was a muliple in a formula, such that the stated accuracy was that gun at range zero, but with what Andy did I don't think that's the case anymore.

[Imp]

Good grief yes there are better guns & I trust the game model I checked stuff I could get data for easily to check Tiger for you, Then checked its stats were in keeping with similar vehicles, they were.
If you want to push it give it 13 on both fronts but the Panther is the better tank faster accurate high penetration stronger front hull its only weakness is its not a sqaure tank like the Tiger.
The Tiger is unusual in that it has very high all round protection so if want to be gamey buy some & use on flanks.

I am not sure but I believe the Tiger was the first tank designed from the ground up as a tank killer because the Germans found a need. Probably started designing after ran into French stuff & MatildaIIs. Because it was an early design quality of parts was paramount as its a flat sided & insanely expensive tank to produce.
Then the Russians came along with the T-34 & sloping armour & design philoshpy changed for ever as the same thickness of armour is far more effective at an angle even if you ignore the increased ricochet effect, the Panther was born.

I am going to bow out of answering your posts now unless you specificaly title to me.
But if you do want help advice think before ask me your last post for instance.
Do you not think if I am looking up real life data I might just have an inkling that there are better guns out there & thats whithout defining a better gun for what exactly.

Please dont come back at me saying the Tiger was the better tank or some such unless you can justify it. From ease of use playability you do not have to worry about its flanks & thats about it.
Oh if you had to put 1 of them in a confined enviroment like urban I would choose the Tiger for its all round survivability & so as not to squaunder the Panthers FC acc

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by Imp

Good grief yes there are better guns & I trust the game model I checked stuff I could get data for easily to check Tiger for you, Then checked its stats were in keeping with similar vehicles, they were.
If you want to push it give it 13 on both fronts but the Panther is the better tank faster accurate high penetration stronger front hull its only weakness is its not a sqaure tank like the Tiger.
The Tiger is unusual in that it has very high all round protection so if want to be gamey buy some & use on flanks.

I am not sure but I believe the Tiger was the first tank designed from the ground up as a tank killer because the Germans found a need. Probably started designing after ran into French stuff & MatildaIIs. Because it was an early design quality of parts was paramount as its a flat sided & insanely expensive tank to produce.
Then the Russians came along with the T-34 & sloping armour & design philoshpy changed for ever as the same thickness of armour is far more effective at an angle even if you ignore the increased ricochet effect, the Panther was born.

I am going to bow out of answering your posts now unless you specificaly title to me.
But if you do want help advice think before ask me your last post for instance.
Do you not think if I am looking up real life data I might just have an inkling that there are better guns out there & thats whithout defining a better gun for what exactly.

Please dont come back at me saying the Tiger was the better tank or some such unless you can justify it. From ease of use playability you do not have to worry about its flanks & thats about it.
Oh if you had to put 1 of them in a confined enviroment like urban I would choose the Tiger for its all round survivability & so as not to squaunder the Panthers FC acc

I didn't ask you anything, merely pointed out what you probably already knew. You sure are testy aren't you (asked rhetorically)? And I will present data as I please, so quit trying to bully me around. Go it (asked rhetorically again)?

[Imp]

Charles because this is just getting antogonistic I am not going to reply again period appologies for any grief it only started because I thought you were misleading Gila I think it was in a post ages back by saying theres only one way to play why have trucks. In fact its a strength of the game that the only thing to get right is tactics & even they should be adapted to what you have at hand. This is why letting the computer buy your stuff can be fun but I digress.

I sometimes have trouble understanding what you are saying & we just seem to be jumping from subject to subject often with vague assumptions.
At least your reply to Mobhack was on point & made sense.
Except as I said stop just keep coming back with stuff & think.

He refered to 2 diffrent guns & given what he said my summary would be the Jagtiger has the big one & is marginaly better at range because it has a longer range (maybe FC to) But in his view its not enough to offset the more limited ammo loadout.

Sorry but you just asked another question to which you probably know the answer by not reading his response to you.
Most posts are short people do not just come back with "stuff" once they have an answer. Its not a discussion group as such join a WW2 site for that but you had better get your facts in order first.

His facts could indeed be based on real life, the game or indeed both & bearing in mind he is one of the games designers which do you think it might be.


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