Wishlist: a few wishes

[chuckfourth]

Hi All
As Regards HEAT rounds, I think the algorithm that selects between shell type is faulty.
In say version 6 of the game, take as an example senario 53, Whitmans tiger is presented with a side shot at a Firefly at 250m. Sensibly he fires an AP round.
The algorithm received some tweaking and now in win3.5
Whitman fires a HEAT round. The problem with this is that with the HEAT pen of 10 compared to the AP rounds 15 he has a much better chance of just annoying the firefly and getting killed. Dumpkoff!

With the new algorithm Whitman is being too smart by half, using a HEAT round to save AP for a rainy day because its "enough" for a side shot. Use AP nincompoop! make sure of it.

I dont know how the shell choosing algorith works but as regards HEAT shouldnt it contain something like?

If the AP penetration is better than the HEAT penetration at the target range fire the AP otherwise fire the HEAT.

ie save the HEAT for the ranges where it has a better penetration than the AP. With the current setup they are wasted.

Best Regards Chuck.

[blitzkreig]

hello!

For me my top two wishes would be a bigger core ie over 200 units and the ability to have captured equipment in your core.

But saying that the game is great fun, for me the inclusion of pbem campaigns was ground breaking and has made it far more enjoyable playing my old foe Panzer bob.

[m113apc]

Originally Posted by blitzkreig

hello!

For me my top two wishes would be a bigger core ie over 200 units and the ability to have captured equipment in your core.

But saying that the game is great fun, for me the inclusion of pbem campaigns was ground breaking and has made it far more enjoyable playing my old foe Panzer bob.

Yes. I would really love to have a bigger core.
I always fight the big battles, with a maximum core, big maps and big clashes.

But to all of you, that tweaks and fix, and make this a bigger game.
Keep it up, God know we appreciate it .

[Imp]

For me my top two wishes would be a bigger core ie over 200 units and the ability to have captured equipment in your core.

Chaps there is a simple reason why you cant have a bigger core
Max core size is 200 now add a few support units & you are defending so the AI recieves a bigger force.
In reality if you have equiped your core with good gear even as it stands the AI would be hard pushed to spend all its points before it hits the unit limit.
Why because it tries its best to buy a realistic force.
Conclussion with a 200 core on defend missions if buy some support keep it to a minimum & drive one of your tank companies off the map to restore balance, or just stick it in a corner.

As to captured equipment in the core the reason its only availble to support I would think is keeping it running. Yes it might last a battle or 2 but you are not trained in its use or repair & are having to scavange parts & ammo from battles to keep it running.
If it breaks down while moving to a new battle location kiss it goodbye.
__________________________________
There are more atoms in a glass of water than there are glasses of water in all the worlds oceans

[Toon]

I understand that a bigger core for campaign games against the AI would be troublesome.

But is there a small possibilty to expand the core in PBM campaign games. Especially if you play max battles and expand the map size when the campaign progresses

For me:

Multiplayer:

- the option to chose max core.
- that the mission types are not random anymore. But are determined with the result of the last battle.

And a probably impossible request.

For kill score to be seperated in inf and armoured.

Greetings

[DRG]

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

Hi All
As Regards HEAT rounds, I think the algorithm that selects between shell type is faulty.
In say version 6 of the game, take as an example senario 53, Whitmans tiger is presented with a side shot at a Firefly at 250m. Sensibly he fires an AP round.
The algorithm received some tweaking and now in win3.5
Whitman fires a HEAT round. The problem with this is that with the HEAT pen of 10 compared to the AP rounds 15 he has a much better chance of just annoying the firefly and getting killed. Dumpkoff!

With the new algorithm Whitman is being too smart by half, using a HEAT round to save AP for a rainy day because its "enough" for a side shot. Use AP nincompoop! make sure of it.

I dont know how the shell choosing algorith works but as regards HEAT shouldnt it contain something like?

If the AP penetration is better than the HEAT penetration at the target range fire the AP otherwise fire the HEAT.

ie save the HEAT for the ranges where it has a better penetration than the AP. With the current setup they are wasted.

Best Regards Chuck.

That's real nice Chuck, now go back and test that scenario 10 times in a row, first shot from Whitmanns tank at the Firefly and tell us all what results you got each time because it won't be what you just claimed it was. Sometimes the game will load HEAT, sometimes AP and SOMETIMES Woll will miss altogether and Whitmanns luck will run out earlier than "historical". Even the AP, when fired, may only wound and leave the Firefly capable of returning fire and sometimes the Firefly is killed outright ( using AP OR HEAT )

What you will NOT see is the same thing happen over and over and over.

Don

[chuckfourth]

Hi Don
Quite right, I got a run on HEATs(7) last night that Im not getting now (3 in a row max).
But....
I still maintain that any gun that fires AP and HEAT should not fire its HEAT rounds unless the range is long enough that the HEAT rounds penetration is better than that of the AP round, not when its less as currently modeled.

Ive managed to defeat IS-1s with stugs and pz 4s (Korsun pocket) precisely because you can penetrate their flanks at long range with the HEAT round.
This strategy is now harder to pursue because now you can waste the HEAT rounds in close encounters. The number carried is limited and it takes a few to get on target, you need every HEAT round you can get when the time comes.

Also from another perspective.

You've got HEAT loaded and the firefly turns to face you, should have been AP!
Best Regards Chuck.

[Imp]

Chuck the game crews actually do a pretty good job on ammo selection, I know because I monitored a tank comp on a hill as ammo was critical & they switched ammo dependant on range & target pretty well as penetration was border line for a lot of targets. I was actually quite impressed & yes they sometimes wasted the good stuff but put that down to the pressure of battle & getting it wrong or simply having the wrong type ready to go.
HEAT also has a much higher variation in penetration level to simulate getting a square hit or not as makes a big diffrence to the plasma torch.
No idea how much of a boost nor do I want to know but I have killed stuff with armour way over the penetration levels.
__________________________________
There are more atoms in a glass of water than there are glasses of water in all the worlds oceans

[chuckfourth]

Hi Imp

Its a playbalance issue.

How many units in the UK OOB carry a weapon that fires a HEAT shell with lower pen than the AP shell, none.
How many units in the US OOB carry a weapon that fires a HEAT shell with lower pen than the AP shell, one, M3 75mm GMC (114)
How many units in the German OOB carry a weapon that fires a HEAT shell with lower pen than the AP shell, countless.
I started to list them but when there were 38 units carrying weapon 50 I thought Id probably made my point, ie
So...
The recent change to the ammo selection algorithm (Firing HEAT when it should be AP) disadvantages the Germans and doesnt afect the UK/USA. Because the Germans have lots of weapons that fire a low pen HEAT round and a higher pen AP round, the allies dont.

Heres a list of all relevant German weapons and some of the units.
77 12.8cm KwK44 Maus 214
61 8.8cm KwK43 L71
62 8.8cm PaK43 L71 PaK Bunker 147; Pillbox 538
228 10.5cm FlaK 38
48 7.5cm KwK42 L70
51 7.5cm StK42 L70
59 8.8cm FlaK18/36
60 8.8cm KwK36 L56 PzKw VI Tiger 376; Tiger 849;
47 7.5cm KwK40 L48 PzKw IVh 026; PzKw IVj (+) 027; SdKfz 234/4 075; SdKfz 251/22 170; PzKw IVh 377; PzKw IVj 745;
50 7.5cm StK40 L48 I stopped here, there are 38 units with this gun (weapon 50).
52 7.5cm PaK40 L48
46 7.5cm KwK40 L43
49 7.5cm StK40 L43
54 7.5cm KwK44 L36
230 7.5cm LG40 PAW
23 4.7cm PaK 183f
21 4.7cm PaK 177i
22 4.7cm KwK 173f

So Normandy, The Brits and Americans load the correct shell, Those careless Germans! about one in every 7 shells they fire isnt the "right" shell
So clearly the Germans are having a lot more "pressure of battle & getting it wrong or simply having the wrong type ready to go" moments than the Allies. (The Brits actually dont have any)

From
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerk...sd-kfz-181.htm
For the Tiger 1

"The hollow-charge Gr.39HL round....was sometimes exchanged for some of the HE load"

Suggesting HEAT wasnt popular and was seen as a substitute for HE rather than AP in the case of the tiger 1 anyway.

Best Regards Chuck.

[Imp]

Well you obviosly have a beef I will be honest & say don't know if ammo selection algorithm was changed, could look at version release notes to see but think not.
You could just be percieving it as changed, I don't bother tracking ammo unless its critical during game just get on & play once I have looked at stats for any new gear.
From memory & not realy paid attention HEAT gets used close up or at range once AP pen falls off. Probably uses close up as better chance of a square hit so overpenetration that will make it more powerful than the AP round. Its borederline which will have the best effect so either can be chosen.
As I said you are asking a lot of your crews if you expect them to always have the right round loaded.
What you seem to want is an algorithim that never fires HEAT exept at range & even then not till the 3rd shot with a high hit chance to preserve ammo.