Guide: MA Oceania - OMG, I think I've done it

[vfb]

Anything about Illithids is not off topic for a MA Oceania strategy thread.

Another thing I did fighting MA R'lyeh was to load up a couple Bane Lords with MR items, the works: Lead Shield, Ammy, Starshine Cap (okay, so I didn't bother with armor). Stick him at the front of your forces and watch as all the Illithids target him the entire fight and ignore the rest of your army. Unfortunately if you've got Sea Kings in your army then you need to use one of them as the decoy instead because they have higher HP.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by vfb

Another thing I did fighting MA R'lyeh was to load up a couple Bane Lords with MR items

This is the Achilles' Heel of this strat, actually. I don't think that it can be downplayed, how useless the Capricorns are. In theory, it is really nice that you can remove their upkeep, and restore their paths, with Transformation. In practice, 90% of your new forms will have 5MR, and even just a random Mind Burn here or there will destroy them.

I think I may try again, but try to work it completely onto the summons angle. I mean, you are probably best off getting Capricorns for your aquatic conquest and early research - and then Transforming them when you get the chance - but seriously, 90% of them can't be committed to combat against a human opponent. So they become upkeep free researchers (that absolutely MUST be well protected from overland spells), and you will have to do all of your battlefield magics with your summons. It just seems..... like a bit of a stretch.

Oh and final tally for this last test, 21 water provinces, 4 Ancient Temples of the Deeps, 2 Kelp Fortresses.

Funny note, I was Transforming at a front line Lab without a castle. One of my Caps turned into a weird form of a Hydra, and I got attacked that turn before I even knew the results of the spell, and lost 2 mages to the poison cloud. Also got a bog beast, a Chimaera, 2 Ice Drakes (and a MOOSE)..... Had 0 deaths, and about a 16% rate of Feeblemind. Was using 3 Luck.

[chrispedersen]

See, my take on MA-Oceania sort dovetails with yours Jim.
The whole question of transforming Capricorns is to avoid upkeep.
Generally, I believe the point of the castle strategy is to make mer mages.

Whats the point of taking an expensive research mage, blow 15 gems and transform him into an animal mage.

Why not just make more of the lower upkeep mages? Playing a +3 0 -3 -3 +0 + 0 scales, I generally can't afford to max out production of mages even from the beginning.

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Whats the point of taking an expensive research mage, blow 15 gems and transform him into an animal mage.

The chance of just losing him aside , Trasformation's just 3 gems in CBM

[JimMorrison]

Yeah it makes a lot of sense at 3N per casting, though the vast majority of the forms, I still feel are wholly unsuited to combat use.

Out of 25 mages (2 died the last turn to Mind Burns, can't remember what they were, but I think they can safely be classified as "MR too low to survive combat" -

3 Foulspawn = 8MR
2 Dragonflies = 3MR
12 various animals = 5MR
1 Winged Monkey (so cool!) = 7MR
1 Bog Beast = 7MR
2 Ice Drakes = 9MR
1 "Hydra Hatchling" (looks like a mature Hydra missing some heads, only 1 form) = 12MR
1 Wyvern = 12MR
1 Chimera = 13MR
1 Amphiptere = 16MR

So if I count the 2 that just died, I had 20% Feebleminded (the Foulspawn and Dragonflies, who are actually at 3MR and -2MR atm from Affliction), and 16% who have >10MR before items. Of those 4, none of them have anything but misc slots, so besides the kind of awesome Amphiptere, none will surpass an unbuffed Capricorn, even with an Antimagic Ammy. (on the bright side, 25 ex-Capricorns with 1 star, and in 1Magic dominion will net you 250RP for free, and cut upkeep by ~583g)

As far as Mermages as support mages..... they are almost identical to a Capricorn out of the water. Without going into length, I'll just say that I didn't think I was the only one that felt that it wasn't just that Capricorns were too expensive once removed from the water, but that their paths just sucked in combat by that point anyways. Not to say that some Mermages wouldn't come in handy, but there is little good they can do that won't have them passed out by round 5, and not much they can do before that.

So, trying to look for an angle that allows land to be conquered early on, and Conj to be researched early enough to not only get a good stable of summoned mages up very early, but to make them visible to your neighbors, so they understand the risks involved in trying to marginalize your holdings. All this is a very tough task to accomplish, when it's well known that you won't get better than N2 or W2 for combat magic without your pretender, or summons (or booster items, but Water is way out of early reach, and Nature seems a very poor use for your gems, considering your other goals).

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Yeah it makes a lot of sense at 3N per casting, though the vast majority of the forms, I still feel are wholly unsuited to combat use.

Out of 25 mages (2 died the last turn to Mind Burns, can't remember what they were, but I think they can safely be classified as "MR too low to survive combat" -

3 Foulspawn = 8MR
2 Dragonflies = 3MR
12 various animals = 5MR
1 Winged Monkey (so cool!) = 7MR
1 Bog Beast = 7MR
2 Ice Drakes = 9MR
1 "Hydra Hatchling" (looks like a mature Hydra missing some heads, only 1 form) = 12MR
1 Wyvern = 12MR
1 Chimera = 13MR
1 Amphiptere = 16MR

So if I count the 2 that just died, I had 20% Feebleminded (the Foulspawn and Dragonflies, who are actually at 3MR and -2MR atm from Affliction), and 16% who have >10MR before items. Of those 4, none of them have anything but misc slots, so besides the kind of awesome Amphiptere, none will surpass an unbuffed Capricorn, even with an Antimagic Ammy. (on the bright side, 25 ex-Capricorns with 1 star, and in 1Magic dominion will net you 250RP for free, and cut upkeep by ~583g)

As far as Mermages as support mages..... they are almost identical to a Capricorn out of the water. Without going into length, I'll just say that I didn't think I was the only one that felt that it wasn't just that Capricorns were too expensive once removed from the water, but that their paths just sucked in combat by that point anyways. Not to say that some Mermages wouldn't come in handy, but there is little good they can do that won't have them passed out by round 5, and not much they can do before that.

So, trying to look for an angle that allows land to be conquered early on, and Conj to be researched early enough to not only get a good stable of summoned mages up very early, but to make them visible to your neighbors, so they understand the risks involved in trying to marginalize your holdings. All this is a very tough task to accomplish, when it's well known that you won't get better than N2 or W2 for combat magic without your pretender, or summons (or booster items, but Water is way out of early reach, and Nature seems a very poor use for your gems, considering your other goals).

Hmmm idea for a new spell.
If an immature hydra gets old enough, it changes to a mature hydra. Unfortunately, I don't know a way to do an "if" statement via spell....

[chrispedersen]

Hmm, another look at things:

Oceania's problem is essentially this:

Water's gem access is: Water/Earth (great access) Astral/Nature Good access, Poor access: Death, Fire, Air)

This becomes compounded by: Water Nature mages emphasis; no foot slots to boost earth; and a pretty fair combat weakness for water/nature magic.