A Big Bug? : Very Weird AI Behaviour

horza · #1 February 28th, 2009, 10:53 AM

Are there known problems with leaders with attack orders preferring to skulk around behind their bodyguards?

The situation: Playing Tien Chi I have a Deva pretender fully equipped and leading ~20 celestial soldiers on guard commander, with 15 or so ministry guards as arrow catchers in the front rank on hold and attack. There are a variety of other units in the army.

We're up against Man, but we have a Staff of Storms.

First battle: Deva is on (hold)(hold) Attack closest, to pick up some buffs and then charge in. Result: Deva sits in the middle of the army and watches chaff charge forward for an expensive win. Odd.

Second battle: Man breaks a siege to throw 200 longbowmen and minimal front rankers at the Deva's army. He uses wind guide to give his arrows a chance in the storm. Deva's orders are now just Attack Closest. She doesn't need the buffs anyway. Result: Deva moves forward for one turn, thinks better of it, and ducks back into the centre of the army, where she remains. Man's longbowmen, despite the storm, eventually wipe out the escorting units and the Deva runs away. Not odd, Bug.

Equipment (in case its somehow relevant): Faithful, Frost Brand, Shield of Gleaming Gold, Charcoal Shield, Flame Helmet, Robe of Shadows, Boots of Stoneskin, Girdle of Might.

Anyone seen anything like this before? I wouldn't mind so much, but it was an MP rather than SP game and the unexpected pretender cowardice has completely turned the tables. I've not had issues with unescorted SCs before, but I'm sure I saw advice on the forum to the effect that decent bodyguards could prevent an SC getting swarmed, which is what I was going for here.

archaeolept · #2 February 28th, 2009, 11:15 AM

it is possible to be blocked from advancing by other troops, for instance archers.

the second instance could also be something along the lines of failing an MR roll to a confusion spell.

if you want, you can email me the turn file and I can look at it. my nick @ gmail

thejeff · #3 February 28th, 2009, 11:30 AM

I haven't played much with SC/thugs and bodyguards. I know bodyguards tend to mill around the guarded commander. If they block his path forward, can he push through them? Move onto and through squares they are already in?
This would only be a problem with large numbers of guards.

horza · #4 February 28th, 2009, 12:05 PM

Just a quick response, but I'll send over the turn file.

First battle could have been a blocking problem, but the second battle the Deva had actually moved forward for a turn, getting pretty much free of the friendly troops, then turned back and dived into the centre.

archaeolept · #5 February 28th, 2009, 12:26 PM

the deva starts out attacking, but then the closest man unit is an air elemental on your right side, so the deva tries to go for it, and by then is surrounded by all her celestial guards (who should be blessed, btw, if only for the morale boost).

With someone who has so many defenses, surrounding your pretender w/ such large and easily killable (prot 4) troops is counter-productive, as they get in the way, prevent the deva from aborbing attacks, and just generally will get killed.

also, give the deva some lightning resist if fighting Man

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I wasn't aware that draconians can fly in storms... that almost makes them potentially useful in some niche manner ;p

horza · #6 February 28th, 2009, 02:20 PM

That simple? Ugh.

I must admit I imagined the Deva could push past the smaller troops. I'll have to rethink that, and the whole concept of significant numbers of bodyguards.

Thanks for looking, and spotting the problem so quickly.

JimMorrison · #7 February 28th, 2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horza

That simple? Ugh.

I must admit I imagined the Deva could push past the smaller troops. I'll have to rethink that, and the whole concept of significant numbers of bodyguards.

Thanks for looking, and spotting the problem so quickly.

BTW, it would have worked without the Storm. Flying units will leap over their bodyguards, who will then race to catch up really fast. It's perhaps suboptimal, but it's better than not moving at all.

Remember there are 8 adjacent squares, and the bodyguards will grab them as fast as they can. So you can fill 7 of those at most, and still expect forward movement. Size 2 = 21 bodyguards at most (23 if commander is size 2, 22 if commander is size 3-4), Size 3 = 14 at most (15 if commander is 2-3), Size 4 = 7 at most (8 if commander is size 2), and Size 5-6 bodyguards just have a max of 7 if you want to move - unless you can fly.

Dorjan · #8 March 2nd, 2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Remember there are 8 adjacent squares, and the bodyguards will grab them as fast as they can. So you can fill 7 of those at most, and still expect forward movement. Size 2 = 21 bodyguards at most (23 if commander is size 2, 22 if commander is size 3-4), Size 3 = 14 at most (15 if commander is 2-3), Size 4 = 7 at most (8 if commander is size 2), and Size 5-6 bodyguards just have a max of 7 if you want to move - unless you can fly.

Ah thanks for that, I've not ran into this problem but i've often ran with around 20 guards for a size 2 commander (so fluke has it that I've never had it!)