Help on controlling the AI please

[Imp]

Hi Suhiir thanks for answering going out so just a brief note

Originally Posted by Imp
Quote:


I am a novice but this seems wrong waypoints must be the last thing set on that side but you can buy & cross attach or even reassign units in the other side without adverse effects on waypoints set for the other.
Hence the "trick" of buying them after you have checked AI side is moving as you want by playing with them set to human & computer control.

Wrong or not it's the way the AI works.
And believe me, being a former programmer myself I have a clue how difficult any AI is to create in the first place and ANY attempt to modify it WILL lead to unexpected results. So Andy and Don will no doubt be wise and not even consider trying to modify it unless something something is outright broken, and it isn't.

I was not refering to wrong as needs fixing or asking for but was refering to the fact if you buy forces for the player side after setting waypoints they do not disappear.
Have not checked if it upsets them somehow but in this post by Pyros its what he says to do
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...134#post422134

Therefore one of them must be wrong it either effects the waypoints in which case this post is wrong or vica versa

[Suhiir]

Believe me Pyros knows what he's talking about.

I don't know why (I have strong suspicion but can't say for certain), but sometimes if you buy new units it totally screws up the waypoints.
Sometimes it doesn't.
To be on the safe side it's best to buy and make any formation alterations before you start trying to work on pathing via waypoints.

Again, just one of those "how it works" things.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Believe me Pyros knows what he's talking about.

I don't know why (I have strong suspicion but can't say for certain), but sometimes if you buy new units it totally screws up the waypoints.
Sometimes it doesn't.
To be on the safe side it's best to buy and make any formation alterations before you start trying to work on pathing via waypoints.

Again, just one of those "how it works" things.

I am sure he does but the 2 still conflict Pyros suggests plotting the waypoints before buying the other side (point 1 in the link of my previos post). The Guide states messing with either side will mess them up which is right.

[Imp]

Suhiir I am going to be busy for next couple of days but will look properly at what you posted then. Is it allright if I PM or email you about to discuss further as feel probably best if just post findings.

A couple of things reaction 99 as I said i think is special but no one has said.
Reaction 98 is to I think that fixes a unit in place.
Another conflict I have found Pyros states in document guide links to right at start that Reaction MUST be set to zero to work properly. I extracted one of his campaigns & a quick look shows most are set to reaction of 1 some 99s & others so this does not match the stated advice.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Imp

I am sure he does but the 2 still conflict Pyros suggests plotting the waypoints before buying the other side (point 1 in the link of my previos post). The Guide states messing with either side will mess them up which is right.

No, actually if you read what he wrote carefully he suggested TESTING waypoint plots before buying the other side.
It's an excellent way to watch how the AI moves formations.
After you finish using his method to test and tweak your waypoints then you buy both sides and plot the ones to be used in a scenario

I'd prefer to continue this with posts unless someone objects, I'm sure others have the same questions.
Also folks can jump in with suggestions or corrections as needed.

99 is the default reaction setting if you don't go in and alter it.
Setting react to 1 just insures the formation will attempt to move turn 1, thus follow the waypoints you set up for it.
If in fact setting it to 98 fixes a unit in place for the duration of a scenario IOU a kiss! This has long been one of my big headaches.

[Double_Deuce]

Some more Reaction Turn info here;

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...light=reaction

[Imp]

Okay a few things from the game guide link I ask again is this right as looking at some campaigns it has not been followed

PLEASE NOTEThe waypoint mechanism requires that any formation that has been assigned a waypoint path MUST have also been assigned a reaction value of 0. This is very important for CAMPAIGN LINKED SCENARIOS

To DD thanks for the link

Suhiir
No, actually if you read what he wrote carefully he suggested TESTING waypoint plots before buying the other side.
It's an excellent way to watch how the AI moves formations.
After you finish using his method to test and tweak your waypoints then you buy both sides and plot the ones to be used in a scenario

If that is the case its a long winded way of doing it to duplicate it you would have to record every waypoint you placed.
It would be far easier to set up both then plot waypoints & save.
Now play as human vs human no password so no need to save unless want.
Do the same trick with AI side set to computer control.
The human side just click end turn & maybe switch off the odd long range weapon.
Its got to be faster overall.

I bought my entire human side after did waypoints cross attached it & modified 2 units without the waypoints disapearing. Then changed force again slightly twice without problem, saved & checked at each stage.
Mind you I only did 2 turns test to see if waypoints still work but the paths still show.
If I adjust anything on the AI side they vanish.

Was using the fact that player side did not seem to effect waypoints to make minor force adjustments to balance without having to start over.
It seems I have just been lucky but this is why I questioned this & hence am questioning reaction zero requirement as people seem to ignore even in campaigns.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Imp

I bought my entire human side after did waypoints cross attached it & modified 2 units without the waypoints disapearing. Then changed force again slightly twice without problem, saved & checked at each stage.
Mind you I only did 2 turns test to see if waypoints still work but the paths still show.
If I adjust anything on the AI side they vanish.

Congratulation, you got lucky. The reason we added the warning to the GG is because sometimes you won't and we cannot predict with 100% certainty when you won't. It *MAY* be that code changes we have made in other areas has altered this behaviour in some way. If so, this is a good example of subtle " unintended consequences" in coding and WHY we really don't like to muck about with the code much any longer.


As you have discovered waypoints are a bit of a black art that few master. Pyros did and wrote extensivly about it and we put it in the game guide. My suggestion for "waypoint newbies" is to NOT try to get too creative with them on your first attempt. ( they are great for random "patrols" where you don't want the same hting happening time after time when a sceanrio is replayed )

It's like calculus in some ways, some people get it and some don't and some get it with practice. Until we increased the number of waypoints allowed it was more a curiosity than anything really useful and increasing the waypoints and allowing players to experiment was, at the time ( and still is ) a more viable option than tearing it all apart and redoing it from scratch so that waypoints don't disapear until your units actually cross them but changing that now would destroy all the existing sceanrios and campaigns that use the existing arcane system. ( which is the perfect word to describe waypoints in the game----Known or understood by only a few )

Don