Some thoughts on improvements to the game

LDiCesare · #1 June 25th, 2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

-Units behave more like units and less like mobs: This is the most profound change I proposed, actually. Its also the most desirable. So, there are two ways you can go about this: (1) define a unit entity which has a depth and facing size, and move that unit entity instead of moving individual guys (this substantially decreases the processor work because it aggregates decisions). Or (2) have individual models know where in the unit they are and check stay in the same position relative to other models in the unit. This is aided by doing things like checking the slowest speed in the unit and capping all model speeds at that speed. I'd vastly prefer #1 for a number of reasons, such as because you can have individual sub-entities which take damage and make attacks, but you don't need to make many AI decisions below the unit level (substantially increasing game performance). I'd need some help implementing this because I'm not used to working with graphical applications, but given a week and someone to ask questions of I could probably figure it out. (Moderate)

Actually, I think individual fighters already know which unit they are part of. If you give an attack order to a 50-man unit, the 50 men will swarm around lone opponents in front of the enemies rather than go through an dfight behind. They swarm around their target instead of staying in square formation (they should have more than a square formation if we wanted more realism)
Regarding point (2),it's not graphic. It's a simulation on a terrain, but graphics don't matter.
Problems happen when units get killed and you want to regroup. If the forward left part of the unit has been killed and they want to stay in square, then units from left back and right must move left and forward to fill the gaps.

I don't think Illwinter's ever going to do something like that.

Sombre · #2 June 25th, 2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

I don't think Illwinter's ever going to do something like that.

This is sort of a pointless thing to state in this thread :]

Squirrelloid · #3 June 25th, 2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

-Units behave more like units and less like mobs: This is the most profound change I proposed, actually. Its also the most desirable. So, there are two ways you can go about this: (1) define a unit entity which has a depth and facing size, and move that unit entity instead of moving individual guys (this substantially decreases the processor work because it aggregates decisions). Or (2) have individual models know where in the unit they are and check stay in the same position relative to other models in the unit. This is aided by doing things like checking the slowest speed in the unit and capping all model speeds at that speed. I'd vastly prefer #1 for a number of reasons, such as because you can have individual sub-entities which take damage and make attacks, but you don't need to make many AI decisions below the unit level (substantially increasing game performance). I'd need some help implementing this because I'm not used to working with graphical applications, but given a week and someone to ask questions of I could probably figure it out. (Moderate)

Actually, I think individual fighters already know which unit they are part of. If you give an attack order to a 50-man unit, the 50 men will swarm around lone opponents in front of the enemies rather than go through an dfight behind. They swarm around their target instead of staying in square formation (they should have more than a square formation if we wanted more realism)
Regarding point (2),it's not graphic. It's a simulation on a terrain, but graphics don't matter.
Problems happen when units get killed and you want to regroup. If the forward left part of the unit has been killed and they want to stay in square, then units from left back and right must move left and forward to fill the gaps.

I don't think Illwinter's ever going to do something like that.

The things that really annoy me are behaviors like mixed-speed units break up as they charge pell-mell down the field. Disciplined troops should not do that. Ie, anything better than irregulars (irregulars are generally militia or forced conscripts when it comes to shock troops).

As to filling gaps, if you define a unit entity then a massive loss in, say, teh middle would lead to a recalculation of unit facing length/depth. Its not like troops don't move to close holes in the line in shock combat - having a hole punched in your line is bad for you. It means the enemy can separate you and defeat you in detail.

LDiCesare · #4 June 25th, 2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

The things that really annoy me are behaviors like mixed-speed units break up as they charge pell-mell down the field. Disciplined troops should not do that. Ie, anything better than irregulars (irregulars are generally militia or forced conscripts when it comes to shock troops).

Yes. However, you have to take into account crippled units. If a soldier is crippled, you probably don't want him to cripple the movement of the whole unit. Crippled individuals should be removed from the computation somehow, so the unit would move at the 1st slowest decile speed for instance (means 9 units out of 10 move at least at that speed) rather than the slowest unit. Otherwise, you'd have to remove crippled units by hand systematically, which is a pain when you have big armies late-game, particularly if they get old or have fought a lot.