Up to date beta patch info..

[Jourin]

C4

I will defend myself since you quoted me (out of context)

I think MM had a choice. Continue to work with the 50 unpaid beta testers (hey that got a free game and got to play it for x months so I consider them lucky) and fix all the minor problems or release it and continue to improve the game.

The community put pressure on MM to release the game, and MM complied but stated that the game will not be released with any major/obvious bugs.

AI level: The AI in SEIII was very good and it didn't cheat but it evolved. When you first play the game and are more worried about correcting bugs by testing weird scenarios the AI can be stupid and still give you a challenge. Only after humans play numerous games and evolve strategies does the stupidity of the AI show. Other companies compensate by letting the AI cheat and to me that ruins the game. I like playing against an AI that doesn't "cheat"

I think as people play the game and note the stupid things the AI does - then report them back to MM, the AI will improve. I am very good at strategy games and can easily beat most AIs on the top level, yet the AI in SEIII was challenging. I think the AI can evolve in SEIV to also be very challenging.

If you think the AI is doing something stupid - send your reasons why along with your approach plus the save game to MM and MAYBE they will be able to make the AI smarter.

The big difference between MM and ALL other companies is that MM will try while other companies usually just take your money and run.

I will let the matter drop, but please do not quote me out of context.

Thanks

[Noble713]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Courageous:
Poor A.I.? Buy _Ascendancy_. Get back with
me.

---

LOL!!!! I remember that game. If the AI in SE4 has the aggressiveness of a sheep, the AI in Ascendancy would be a popsicle stick.

[C4]

Jourin, Let the matter drop or not as it suits you.

I fail to see how your quote was out of context regarding the AI.

Please let me know how you feel your were misrepresented regarding the AI quote and I will be happy to issue you a formal apology if I did take it out of context.

[This message has been edited by C4 (edited 18 December 2000).]

[sogard]

I have been playing both solo and hotseat SPACE EMPIRES IV (SE4) for the past couple of weeks. With the present patch (v1.11), the game is very good. It is sooooo good that I can not wait until tcp/ip play is enabled. I hope that playing SE4 in the turn based mode will also permit one to use the tactical combat option (as this works perfectly in hotseat play). I liked MOO2 in hotseat play rather well; but, SE4 adds whole new dimensions to game play.

I look forward to the release of the new patch and the enabling of tcp/ip play. One nice added feature would be the inclusion of a timer for internet play so that, if you were playing in turn based mode, one could set limits as to how long a player is allowed to make a move (excluding combats, if possible)

[Atrocities]

No presure, but do you think the new patch will be out later this week?

[dmm]

1) Too many complaints about the AI. The truth is that computers are stupid, and it is hard to keep them from doing stupid things. You wind up having to script its behavior, and then it doesn't take a bright human very many games to figure out the flaws.

2) Personally, I don't mind the dumb AI because my time is so limited. I just want to have fun for a few hours. And SEIV delivers.

3) SEIV's AI is comparable to a lot of games that I've played. For example, Red Alert is pretty easy to beat, once you know how. Successive releases in that series have gotten smarter, but are still no match for a good human player. Same with Alpha Centauri.

4) For those who are frustrated by the AI stupidity in certain areas, here are some suggestions:
i) Make some technology unavailable, or just don't use it. Example: Mines, which the AI seems to have lots of trouble with.
ii) Role play. There are tons of options here. Examples: Pretend your race's sense of honor won't allow it to attack an enemy with overwhelming odds. Pretend your race is technophobic. Pretend your race is pacifist. Pretend your race is cowardly. Etc., etc., etc. Use your imagination and have some fun.
iii) Give the AI advantages. Examples: Use the setup button that allows it to produce faster. Don't use all your race points, or use them to enhance role play rather than to insure victory. Give the AI a head start.
iv) Don't exploit known weaknesses that you feel are unrealistic. Examples: Don't use stolen technology immediately; wait a bit. Don't remain allies with two warring AI empires, all the time ignoring their diplomatic ultimatums; choose one and reject the other. Don't demand anyone's home planet as tribute and don't accept it if offered.


Yes, in some ways these suggestions would limit the game, but the point is that you can have a lot of fun with the stupid AI. Then you can remove restrictions as MM improves the AI, and it will be like getting periodic expansion packs.

5) The debate about AI opponents vs human opponents is missing an important point: most games have inherent flaws which will be exploitable by an experienced human opponent, which eventually either ruins the game or turns it into a chess match. So after a while, human players aren't much more fun than AI. But SEIV has a lot of complicatedness and customizability, so hopefully it won't get old so fast. Every time you find "the way to win" you can mod the files and take that way away.

[This message has been edited by dmm (edited 18 December 2000).]

[dmm]

1) Too many complaints about the AI. The truth is that computers are stupid, and it is hard to keep them from doing stupid things. You wind up having to script its behavior, and then it doesn't take a bright human very many games to figure out the flaws.

2) Personally, I don't mind the dumb AI because my time is so limited. I just want to have fun for a few hours. And SEIV delivers.

3) SEIV's AI is comparable to a lot of games that I've played. For example, Red Alert is pretty easy to beat, once you know how. Successive releases in that series have gotten smarter, but are still no match for a good human player. Same with Alpha Centauri.

4) For those who are frustrated by the AI stupidity in certain areas, here are some suggestions:
i) Make some technology unavailable, or just don't use it. Example: Mines, which the AI seems to have lots of trouble with.
ii) Role play. There are tons of options here. Examples: Pretend your race's sense of honor won't allow it to attack an enemy with overwhelming odds. Pretend your race is technophobic. Pretend your race is pacifist. Pretend your race is cowardly. Etc., etc., etc. Use your imagination and have some fun.
iii) Give the AI advantages. Examples: Use the setup button that allows it to produce faster. Don't use all your race points, or use them to enhance role play rather than to insure victory. Give the AI a head start.
iv) Don't exploit known weaknesses that you feel are unrealistic. Examples: Don't use stolen technology immediately; wait a bit. Don't remain allies with two warring AI empires, all the time ignoring their diplomatic ultimatums; choose one and reject the other. Don't demand anyone's home planet as tribute and don't accept it if offered.


Yes, in some ways these suggestions would limit the game, but the point is that you can have a lot of fun with the stupid AI. Then you can remove restrictions as MM improves the AI, and it will be like getting periodic expansion packs.

4) The debate about AI opponents vs human opponents is missing an important point: most games have inherent flaws which will be exploitable by an experienced human opponent, which eventually either ruins the game or turns it into a chess match. So after a while, human players aren't much more fun than AI. But SEIV has a lot of complicatedness and customizability, so hopefully it won't get old so fast. Every time you find "the way to win" you can mod the files and take that way away.