The Virtue

[OmikronWarrior]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Re: Amorphous
Maybe I'm thinking of LA Arco. I could swear I looked at an arco line up and it was all high resources. (Except for slingers of course, which are worthless compared to indie archers).

Attached (assuming i'm doing this right) is an plague hitting Lanka on turn 1 (message start of turn 2). O3 Sl3 H3 D3 Mf2 Mg1 scales, non-CBM.

I also saw a vampire count attack my capitol on turn 3 about 4 test games ago, although I remembered just after I overwrote it with a new test game that I was supposed to be saving such things. (Amusingly, said attack was chased off by monkey PD! Poo fling powers, activate!)

Let me quickly point out that Plague events are much more a product of Death Dominion than Misfortune. Fortune certainly makes them rarer (and possibly less severe like barbarian attacks), but having growth eliminates them outright. I'm not sure what Growth/Death neutral does.

I'll take your word that bad events can happen to the capital within a few turns. I myself maintain after playing what must be hundreds of SP games to turn 12 with O3Mf2 (though usually with Growth as well) that such occurences are rare or just not "crippling." And even if they truly are a knock out blow such as a capital under siege... better to loose early before you invest a lot of time in a game so you can start another.

[vfb]

According to this http://www.freewebs.com/dominions2/events.html, Death-3 makes plagues common, so if you do get a random bad event, your chances of it being a plague are much higher.

[Psycho]

In Momentum2 Mictlan had unrest in capital on first turn. Bad things happen.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Re: Amorphous
Maybe I'm thinking of LA Arco. I could swear I looked at an arco line up and it was all high resources. (Except for slingers of course, which are worthless compared to indie archers).

Attached (assuming i'm doing this right) is an plague hitting Lanka on turn 1 (message start of turn 2). O3 Sl3 H3 D3 Mf2 Mg1 scales, non-CBM.

I also saw a vampire count attack my capitol on turn 3 about 4 test games ago, although I remembered just after I overwrote it with a new test game that I was supposed to be saving such things. (Amusingly, said attack was chased off by monkey PD! Poo fling powers, activate!)

Thanks for this Squirrelloid. I'm in work so I can't check it yet, but I have just scanned the zip archive though and it only contains a .2h file. For others to be able to access a game you need to archive everything in that games folder. So that is basically the .trn and .fatherland (something like this it is called) files. And also the .map file if you used a custom map. The .2h file is actually the only file not needed to 'see' the game, as that is only needed to see/know the orders for that turn, which is why that is what gets sent to the llamaserver But I'll be certain to check it out once you attach everything that is needed.

A plague event on turn 2 would be borderline crippling though, and would indicate that there is at least one very bad event that can happen at the start of turn 2. So I would certainly have to re-assess the theory that there are no very bad events possible that soon if your example game shows it happening.

But as others have said, the Plague event is linked to Death3 scales. And anyone who takes Death3 and Mistfortune is asking for trouble (although I realise you probably did so just for demonstration purposes)


Edit: Changed the post title to enable it to be found with the search function.

[atul]

Every bad event can happen on early turns. There was a wish to disable worst events for early turns, but I don't think it was ever granted.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by atul

Every bad event can happen on early turns. There was a wish to disable worst events for early turns, but I don't think it was ever granted.

But there are 'early' turns, and then there are turns 1-3. Bad events in the 'early' turns are rarely game ending, but getting one in the first 1-3 turns can be.

KO has stated that no really bad event can happen before turn 3-4, as linked and referenced by myself in one of the above posts. But it would be useful to establish if there are any potentially crippling events that don't follow KO's statement, or if KO's staement is just incorrect. For example, I am 99% certain that in three years of playing, I have not ever had my capital attacked by Indy's at the start of turn 2. Which does follow KO's statement.

What Squirrelloid has attempted to do with his attached save game is show that there is at least one exception to KO's statement. And it is something I am interested in seeing once he attaches everything required to access it.

Unfortunately, I am not someone who readily believes statements about the game mechanics unless I can be shown my understanding is incorrect. So just saying "Every bad event can happen on early turns" means almost nothing to me personally. No offence intended to anyone of course, I just always like things backed-up if they go against my knowledge

[vfb]

I tested turn 2 (the very first hosting of the game) events in EA and MA for a bit with some bad scales and saw:

- Brigands (30 unrest)
- Hurricane (30 unrest)
- Ill Omen (30 unrest)
- Gadite rebel set your slaves free
- Frost has destroyed the crops. -80 gold, 10 unrest
- An assassin has tried to eliminate one of your commanders
- People are restless and on fifth left (-20% pop), 0 unrest
- Famine struck the land (-20% pop, -100 gold, 100 unrest) <--- Ooh, nice!
- Plague struck the land (-50% pop, 10 unrest)
- People led astray (-dom)
- Heavy snowfalls (-100 gold)
- Blight (-5% pop, -80 gold, 10 unrest)
- Magic is fading
- Lab destroyed
- Demon possessed a herd of swine (30 unrest)
- Sharks caused panic (30 unrest)
- Thief stole gems
- Trolls ate some travelers (-50 gold, 10 unrest)
- Vampire Count attacked province <-- he killed Ashdod's PD

So, it looks like barbarians and knights are out, I would have noticed them. Caspar is pretty rare, so I probably need to test more. Same with the Ancient Presence.

But on the very first hosting, you can get the (-20% pop, -100 gold, 100 unrest) famine event, and also the Vampire Count can attack your home province, and your lab can burn down.

[Calahan]

Many thanks for the turn 2 event list vfb. I knew most of the unrest and minor pop killings events were possible on turn 2 (although I don't consider them game ending), but the Plague, Lab Fire and especially Vampire Count event are new to me I must say. Since I thought all of those were only possible from turn 3 onwards. One day someone (me if I get time) will nail down a precise list of just what scales are related to allowing specific events to happen. Since I've never seen a complete/accurate list of this anywhere.

And I guess all those posts I've seen in the past advocating to always recruit a mage on turn 1 are right then Unless you gamble on Merc mages to re-build your lab.

[Alpine Joe]

Originally Posted by vfb

I tested turn 2 (the very first hosting of the game) events in EA and MA for a bit with some bad scales and saw:

- Brigands (30 unrest)
- Hurricane (30 unrest)
- Ill Omen (30 unrest)
- Gadite rebel set your slaves free
- Frost has destroyed the crops. -80 gold, 10 unrest
- An assassin has tried to eliminate one of your commanders
- People are restless and on fifth left (-20% pop), 0 unrest
- Famine struck the land (-20% pop, -100 gold, 100 unrest) <--- Ooh, nice!
- Plague struck the land (-50% pop, 10 unrest)
- People led astray (-dom)
- Heavy snowfalls (-100 gold)
- Blight (-5% pop, -80 gold, 10 unrest)
- Magic is fading
- Lab destroyed
- Demon possessed a herd of swine (30 unrest)
- Sharks caused panic (30 unrest)
- Thief stole gems
- Trolls ate some travelers (-50 gold, 10 unrest)
- Vampire Count attacked province <-- he killed Ashdod's PD

So, it looks like barbarians and knights are out, I would have noticed them. Caspar is pretty rare, so I probably need to test more. Same with the Ancient Presence.

But on the very first hosting, you can get the (-20% pop, -100 gold, 100 unrest) famine event, and also the Vampire Count can attack your home province, and your lab can burn down.

Or get reduced to half pop in your capital. In mists of time, i was hit by the half pop plague event on turns 2,3, and 5, all in my capital. That slowed me down a bit.

[vfb]

Yes, half pop is the plague, and it's in my list.

But just to let you know, the list is by no means complete, it's just a sample of bad events I got on the first turn hosting.