Tip: Template for reducing late game MM hell

[K]

Originally Posted by Micah

Gens cause the attacker to have to take stupid risks to eliminate the threat of an opponent with significant resources/income, but don't allow the attacker the benefit of being able to capture those resources. In fact, the defender can send those gem items to the attacker's enemies if it becomes clear that they're doomed, creating a double-jeopardy situation. Late game this can easily result in the winner of a hard-fought war ending up with less to show from it than the loser's ally, since the gen income can exceed the province income. I don't see how that is in any way a desirable mechanic to have. Do you disagree?

In parts.

You've correctly identified the problem of sending magic items to your ally, but again your solution does not solve the problem. The same problem exists if I send say....20 Phoenix Rods to my ally; my ally just gained a pile of power and the attacker is not going to take any part of that power if he conquers me. The solution to that is to remove forging altogether.

Heck, the very issue of allies creates unfairness where good players are dogpiled by lesser players and a skilled attacker might be crushed by not just the troops of his foe but the spells of his foe's ally. I personally have fought bloody wars with an opponent and over many turns eventually taking 95% of his provinces only to have his turtling neighbor come in and take all his provinces back for him. Again, this is not an issue that is fixed by killing gem gens.

I disagree that sneak attackers should have an easy time killing off other players. There is a short list of ways to take an entire empire in a few turns, and I'd prefer if the win did not always go to the few players lucky enough to be playing the right nation that neatly dovetails into one of those tactics.

You should have to take a person's fortress to end them as a threat, and I think it's shear laziness that prompts people to want the thugs they use to kill province defense to be the same thing they use to take a fortress. There should be a price to take another nation that you pay up front, and the pay-off takes several turns to mature.

It should take a while for people to get used to playing games without gem-gens, so I expect at least a good 6 months before people get used to keeping stockpiles.