Maginot Line Fortifications

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by sturmovik

But the OOBs already include some Maginot line turrets and the Belgian OOBs include Eban Emael units and those were only involved in a single engagement. The Maginot line was subjected to a concentrated attack by Army Group C. If you don't want to include the small cloches that is one thing, but the OOBs should at least round out the compliment of revolving turrets and some of the anti-tank casemates. These are much more useful for creating real world scenarios than the plethora of prototype and experimental tanks that currently inhabit the OOBs.

The units we have we inherited from the original game I think. They suffice as representative units for the few people who conceivably might want to make such a scenario (they are X3 radio code so not used in generated battles). I don't think there actually is such a scenario anyway.

This is a game of tactical ground warfare - and the end users are thus interested in tactical units, and not a what-if slogging match scenario. Our end user base is much more interested in what-ifs about possible tanks etc as used in regular battle. Hence Maus, etc...

So those things really have little relevance for the stock OOBS. But if you really do want to make your own modified OOB with such items then by all means feel free to make and post it for those who might download it.

Cheers
Andy

[sturmovik]

I already do make my own OOBs and have made them available for over a decade now. I guess I was being naive in thinking that the official game developers folks might be interested in some of the units I had created (despite the fact that many of my additions magically appear in the regular OBs soon after).

It find it a little pretentious speaking for what your "user base" is looking for, especially since the game already provides much of which I am suggesting (German coastal defense guns anyone?). Because the French OOB has a lot of empty space the opportunity cost of Maginot Line support is nil so I am finding your hostility downright perplexing.

The line was directly engaged by both Army Group C in 1940 and again by Patton's 3rd Army in 1944 against German defenders. The efficacy of fixed fortifications against the panzer armies is one of the more interesting questions of the war that I would think your "user base" would wish to explore. Perhaps you should withhold judgment until after additional elements of the community can weigh in.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by sturmovik

I already do make my own OOBs and have made them available for over a decade now. I guess I was being naive in thinking that the official game developers folks might be interested in some of the units I had created (despite the fact that many of my additions magically appear in the regular OBs soon after).

I must admit that I've never heard of "sturmovik" till I looked at your website link. Not seen that page before, personally.

As to any "plagiarism" - been there, got the mug and T-shirt etc. I (and Pascal Ode) produced SP1, and SP2 OOBs back before 2000. And some other guy turned up later with his own WW2 set, with a lot of units etc looking rather like mine & pascal's.

There are only so many units in WW2, and the consensus amongst wargamers will tend to eventually converge.

It find it a little pretentious speaking for what your "user base" is looking for, especially since the game already provides much of which I am suggesting (German coastal defense guns anyone?). Because the French OOB has a lot of empty space the opportunity cost of Maginot Line support is nil so I am finding your hostility downright perplexing.

We used to have an "OOB team" of volunteers, and that was when a lot of trash appeared in there. Plenty of them had thier own "bright ideas". Don and I have taken the OOBS back, and a lot of the work has been in rectifying many of these "bright ideas" and standardising the database.

Several of these guys went hog wild on weird and wonderful fortifications amongst other things, like (say) 99 different Brandenberger units where 1 or 2 representative elements would have done, "colonial" troops and so on and so forth.

Maginot type turrets were there in the original OOBS as far as I recall, and we simply inherited them. Only change was to make the turrets rotate when we fixed the code to allow forts to do so. But the scope of this game system remains the same - forts and bunkers are really only to be field fortifications as met in regular battle. So these "specials" are X3 radio codes, and therefore only met if in a designed scenario or if your human opponent decides to buy such. (Which he likely will not, as a little puff of smoke negates an expensive immobile fort.)

Somebody may have made a scenario at some point using the things, but I have no knowledge of any such. Therefore we can infer the lack of interest in fort-busting scenarios.

As to any code changes to make forts able to fire indirect - that is not going to happen. We already have artillery to do that job. All a scenario designer need do is edit an existing off-map arty unit and rename it as "Fort XXX" should he so desire. Plus it would need a new fort class, and all values in a unit class byte type are already used.

By all means, if you want to have your own OOB with lots of different specialist Maginot fort units, then feel free to make such and offer it up. But it will be your mod, and you can have the pleasure of maintaining it and entering into any support discussions with the end users.

The line was directly engaged by both Army Group C in 1940 and again by Patton's 3rd Army in 1944 against German defenders. The efficacy of fixed fortifications against the panzer armies is one of the more interesting questions of the war that I would think your "user base" would wish to explore. Perhaps you should withhold judgment until after additional elements of the community can weigh in.

For an SP type scenario, any fort icon would really do the trick for representing such. The process would be the same even with some "speciality" forts added. Smoke the forts off, stonk with arty, and assault the suppressed surviving forts with engineers. Rinse and repeat till end game.

I think most end users tend to avoid such slug-fest scenarios and would rather concentrate on those involving some element of manoeuvre.

But as you say - perhaps there are some folks out there who desire the addition of several new Maginot forts to the French OOB. Maybe they will chime in?.

Cheers
Andy