Ammo armoured vehicles

[Jack_Dionne]

The point I was trying to make is that all Nationalities should have some type of armoured ammo carrier.
That's all.

[Marcello]

Just wanted to point out that commanders at all levels including Platoon or Troop level depending on the military unit employs armoured vehicles to carry ammunition.

That is a pretty sweeping statement for a game which covers 92 nations and organizations during a timespan of over 70 years.
And actually in real life usually they don't. Ammunition is typically handled by trucks most of the time. There have been a few dedicated armored ammunition carriers, typically for artillery, but they have not been available to everyone all the time. If you really have to deliver some rifle/mortar/etc. ammo to an hotspot you can always shove some of it on an APC in a pinch of course, but that can be done in the same way in the game by loading an ammo container on an APC, which brings us to...

The point I was trying to make is that all Nationalities should have some type of armoured ammo carrier.
That's all.

Several nationalities simply would not have armored vehicles at all for part or most of the game lifespan. Not a whole lot of armored vehicles in real life in Gaza or current Somalia for example.

[hoplitis]

Originally Posted by Jack_Dionne

The point I was trying to make is that all Nationalities should have some type of armoured ammo carrier.
That's all.

Key word is "should".
Key question "Do they actually have?"

[Jack_Dionne]

Originally Posted by hoplitis

Key word is "should".
Key question "Do they actually have?"

Your opinions are very much appreciated. To further my cause let me say that remember the actual game length of a game is usually less then one hour if we are going to use the reality argument. If a local commander feels the need to use one of his APC to haul ammo around for an hour or so what’s the big deal.

It’s not that big a deal to change the ammo containers to armoured ammo vehicles. I like using some ammo vehicles in my campaign games but when I play India or China I have to buy an APC to haul the ammo container around using up another core unit spot.

That’s all I am trying to impress upon, just because it’s there you don’t have to buy it.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Jack_Dionne

It’s not that big a deal to change the ammo containers to armoured ammo vehicles.

Actually it's not that trivial for a couple of reasons. From the game guide:

AMMO CANISTER, crew is 1 and speed must be 0, usually transportable, supplies small ammo only (to WH size 3), low supply points per move (20 ammo points) (Originally the ammo box icon for this was done only for a particular WinSPWW2 scenario using German paras (who only dropped armed with pistols), but left in for specialised scenario usage). Range 1 hex.

[...]

Anything else is a normal ammo truck (even if armoured), 40 ammo supply points per move. Range 1 hex

1) A dedicated ammo carrier is much more effective in the game than loading an ammo cannister in an APC; it can resupply artillery for example. This again has some parallel in reality.
2) Ammo cannisters or truck are generic and thus easier to handle. It would take quite a bit of work to find out if country X or Y has actually some armored ammo carrier variant (believe me, this sort of info is not easy to come by) and if not which APCs should be selected for such job. It might be worthwhile for China or India. Tanzania or Paraguay, not so much (and good luck finding info on them)
3) I will repeat again, not every country has armored vehicles in service that could, even in a pinch, used for such purpose.

[Jack_Dionne]

Any APC can act as an ammo carrier in game terms. Have you ever been in any type of APC?

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Jack_Dionne

Any APC can act as an ammo carrier in game terms. Have you ever been in any type of APC?

I doubt that trying to use, say, a BTR-60PB to resupply heavy arty ammo would be all that practical for example. But let's assume it isn't an issue. What I was underscoring previously is that several nations/organizations still simply don't have APCs in first place, period. What sort of armored resupply vehicle do you suggest for them?

[Jack_Dionne]

I have been in a modified BTR (the Polish contingent uses them) in the Middle East as part of UNDOF and I can tell you they are large and lots of room.

As far as some nationalities not having any APC that’s not the issue I am bringing to light. Please understand I am not trying to get into a pissing contest on this issue just hoping for a bit of change that’s all.

[Jack_Dionne]

Originally Posted by Marcello

Actually it's not that trivial for a couple of reasons. From the game guide:

1) A dedicated ammo carrier is much more effective in the game than loading an ammo cannister in an APC; it can resupply artillery for example. This again has some parallel in reality.
2) Ammo cannisters or truck are generic and thus easier to handle. It would take quite a bit of work to find out if country X or Y has actually some armored ammo carrier variant (believe me, this sort of info is not easy to come by) and if not which APCs should be selected for such job. It might be worthwhile for China or India. Tanzania or Paraguay, not so much (and good luck finding info on them)
3) I will repeat again, not every country has armored vehicles in service that could, even in a pinch, used for such purpose.

Seems odd though, how an M113 can be used as an ammo carrier when you compare its size to other APC of similar size from different countries.
How about levelling the playing field.

How many people can say they have even been in an APC let alone compare something they have never actually been in.

My only goal is the same as everyone else, to contribute in a way to make this game as good as it can be, given it's limitations.

[Imp]

Seems odd though, how an M113 can be used as an ammo carrier when you compare its size to other APC of similar size from different countries.

The M113 ammo is a dedicated conversion try googing & probably relativly straight forward as its a tin box on tracks but as mentioned before size is not the issue they could all carry some its access as in ease of un/loading & securing it. Nice hatch arrangement not a problem but look at some APCs the means of egress is not great. If you wanted to push it could have that tops up at 25% of the rate of a dedicated vehicle & always goes bang if its hit but then you would not buy it. Strangely using the APC to carry an ammo cannister sort of simulates this. The truth is in game terms cant see the point they are a very rare casualty you dont try & reload when under fire its a job done out of harms way.