Astral magic seems overpowered

[Tolkien]

Astral does have access to ridiculously powerful battlefield-wide spells. However, such spells require a massive amount of slaves/boosters/gems, and a good antimagic or SC makes the whole thing useless very ineffective. Soul slay, enslave mind, and paralyze are great counters, but blood and death have even more effective counters. Claws of Inferno/Cocytcos for example, while very high level (and hellbind heart), are awesome anti-SC/thug spells. Drain life also, as it isn't resistable (unless lifeless).
But in general though, astral took a really big hit when it lost clams, which very much evened the field. Astral has some really powerful nation-only summons, like Seraphs or Devatas, but those require ridiculously high amounts of astral pearls, and pearl income is limited. Golems are also vulnerable to a good ol' magic duel. Other magic paths have much more, and much more efficient, summons. Death: Tartarians (still ridiculously good). Blood: hell, everything (with slave income in the 100s, your not really all that limited) from demon lords to heliophagi to archdevils to armies of demons.

But in any event, communions are counterable. Earthquakes are the bane of all communions.

But anyway, astral is good, but not imbalanced or anything. I personally feel blood wins purely on the basis of powerful summons and massive income.

[ghoul31]

Originally Posted by Tolkien

. Death: Tartarians (still ridiculously good). Blood: hell, everything (with slave income in the 100s, your not really all that limited) from demon lords to heliophagi to archdevils to armies of demons.

But anyway, astral is good, but not imbalanced or anything. I personally feel blood wins purely on the basis of powerful summons and massive income.

So basically, water and fire are very underpowered compared to the others..

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by ghoul31

So basically, water and fire are very underpowered compared to the others..

I don't think 'underpowered' is the right comparison operator. Not 'keystone' or 'central' is better. S and D (and B for such nations) comprise keystone of a magic strategy; A, E, and N provide crucial utility AND power; F and W have some great offerings (especially in combination: acid spells, rune smasher, etc) but just don't have the sort do or die spells/items that the other schools offer.

[Tolkien]

Originally Posted by ghoul31

So basically, water and fire are very underpowered compared to the others..

They aren't as useful, but they still have some uses. But they can't compare to the big three (Astral, Death, and Blood), and don't have the quintessential utility of Earth, Air, and Nature. Still useful. Boots of quickness and rune smashers, at the very least.

[Hadrian_II]

Originally Posted by ghoul31

So basically, water and fire are very underpowered compared to the others..

Fire gives you very nice early to midgame artillery (fireball, falling fires) items (fire brand, golden shield, charcoal shield) and flames from the sky is the spell that makes armies obsolete. Phoenix pyre and fire shield are nice on scs, and incinerate is a nice SC killer (also there is an item for it, so that you can cast it twice a turn with quickness). Also if you have archers, flaming arrow is very powerful.

Water gives you quickness (in spell or item), with falling frost and frozen heart some nice artillery and clams (is there an other use for water gems than clams and boots of quickness?).

[mathusalem]

[quote=Hadrian_II;719829]

Originally Posted by ghoul31

(is there an other use for water gems than clams and boots of quickness?).

frost brand and sometimes water bottle

[Hadrian_II]

Originally Posted by mathusalem

frost brand and sometimes water bottle

Frost brand is the worst brand of all, and water bottle is only useful when you enemy is spamming earth attack on you.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by Hadrian_II

Frost brand is the worst brand of all, and water bottle is only useful when you enemy is spamming earth attack on you.

:P Tell that to my dead golems.

[chrispedersen]

Frost brand is better than shadow brand.
Bottle water is ok for assassins.

Water also has tidal wave (vastly underrated), wolven winter, and murderous winter.

Water also dovetails extremely well with water nations. So for example, your cold scales will not affect you (underwater) and can be devestating to heat loving nations. Your summons (winter wolves) are pretty reasonable.

Water has an excellent site searching spell (voice of tiamat). I was against the change that required it to be your province.

Frozen heart, encased in ice, prison of Sedna are all excellent spells. Water is a well rounded school having good construction items, good anti SC, good site searching.

Falling frost is devestating in the hands of someone that knows how to use it... and there are others.

Demon whip is only Con2 in CMB and then only 1.5 or later iirc.

[Redeyes]

One of Water's greatest strengths though is how effectively it lets you bootstrap into Death and Nature through Streams of Hades and Contact Naiad. With how crucial either of those paths are for winning strategies nations with water magic have a decent advantage right there.

What Water lacks is strong globals and rituals, but no single path can have everything (except Death, or Astral, I guess).