Overlords - Game Thread. (playing)

[rdonj]

The independent/neutral change is almost definitely going to be in. I favor it, everyone who's commented has favored it. It's probably in.

I like the idea of expanding attack options, personally. How exactly this is going to be handled is what I am not sure of yet. I like squirrel's banner idea, but if I used it I would put a limit as to how many banner armies you can have.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by rdonj

The independent/neutral change is almost definitely going to be in. I favor it, everyone who's commented has favored it. It's probably in.

I like the idea of expanding attack options, personally. How exactly this is going to be handled is what I am not sure of yet. I like squirrel's banner idea, but if I used it I would put a limit as to how many banner armies you can have.

The whole point to the banners is they aren't limited. But you do have diminishing returns - the more you have, the lower the marginal value of the *next* one. So there's some logical point at which you stop making them. And every one is some number of gems you aren't spending on other uses. I don't see a need for a hard limit.

[namad]

how about every 10turns of the game you get +1max attack armies per turn?


that way early on when you are three times as big as your neighbors you are severely limited but in the end game when things boil down equally between finalists the limit is high?


also if the overlords have no restrictions on attacking indies early in the game and start with so many starting provinces i fear that they might just kill all the normals by turn 20 if not turn 12? what would be done to prevent this? perhaps if the overlords have no restriction on attacks against indies they should also not get so many starting provinces? maybe they should get 3forts with labs and temples in them and 0extra provinces between?


just rambling... i think also maybe we need a new thread? discuss ideas about overlords2 in another thread so people can still come to this thread for clear and concise and easy to find information about the current actual game?

[LupusFatalis]

@namad, agreed. The indie thing allows them to leverage the start. That's why I don't support any changes on attack rate.

[Hoplosternum]

Originally Posted by LupusFatalis

@namad, agreed. The indie thing allows them to leverage the start. That's why I don't support any changes on attack rate.

Yes it will and on it's own it would radically change the next game compared to this one. The Overlords will be able to expand much quicker. In this game only the overlords R'lyeh and Marignon got any reasonable expansion in the first year. So I think being able to attack neutrals sorts out the slow Overlord expansion at the beginning but still protects the Normals from an Overlord rush fuelled by his extra early game castles and income.

But there is also the problem overlords face now - that they cannot run a proper war at this stage. A Normal is now far more dangerous than an Overlord who can only really hit one territory a turn.

So I think some relaxation of the attack rules needs to happen in the mid/late game. I think Namads/my idea of allowing an extra attacks based on the game turn would work well as it slowly makes the Overlords more dangerous.

The problem I have with Squirrel's Standards idea is that it is too cheap rather than the idea itself. 15 gems is very little and means that the Overlords could buy several in the first year. There is little else that would be as vital to use with those early gems. That allows early game Overlord rushes very easily. And those will neither demonstrate Overlord skill or be any fun for the Normal who is rushed due to the inbuilt inbalance in their starting positions. If you made them cost say 50 per banner (make it a summonable creature and one needs to be in each attacking army) then it would work better.

Also please remember this map has really affected the game. Many Normals had effectively only one Overlord neighbour. The water too has acted early on as a map edge. I am not sure this was really the original intention. Making sure everyone has several neighbours including (for Normals) two Overlords would make the diplomacy far better.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

The whole point to the banners is they aren't limited. But you do have diminishing returns - the more you have, the lower the marginal value of the *next* one. So there's some logical point at which you stop making them. And every one is some number of gems you aren't spending on other uses. I don't see a need for a hard limit.

The main thing is I don't want overlords to be able to field too many armies early in the game, because I'm pretty sure that would just lead to them crushing everyone. Currently I can think of two ways to deal with this. 1) You can build one banner for each x time that has passed, or 2) Make these banners construction 4 or 6 so you can't make them right away.

Anyway, I'm not sure I'm doing this yet to begin with.