Exploit question

[Zeldor]

I think that most people prefer smooth and balanced game. Where your skill decides if you win or not. Without some bugs wrecking your game. And exploits are pretty much bugs. As game admin I don't want to list all possible things that should be banned [it'd be nice to create that list though] and as a player I don't want to worry if my neighbour is not using dirty trick, making him suddenly much stronger than he should be.

Most exploits are not vocally protested because they are very rarely used. Be it MoD, Bogus orders or VP ceding. Almost every good player is above strats like that. The problem is with that 'almost' and problems they create. And arguing that most of mp community spoils their fun is really selfish.

And yes, I am against tartarian spamming and whole mechanics behind them. They should be fixed. Same for some other things, like uber globals. Good thing clamming is gone.

[Zeldor]

Foodstamp:

Ok, I used some time and did a proper search for Kristoffer's posts about Bogus as your reference was a bit untrue.

First post: [10-02-07]

"I like the fact that the VIsitors, Bogus and his merry men, have the ability to target commanders.

I think it can be fun in an SP game to get hold of these ancient tactical skills. The older the better (in accordance with the creed of most new religious movements). These are dom-ppp survivals and ancient to boot.

I think it would be naughty to use these orders in MP, unless all players agreed to their eventual use.

I think it would be fun if assassins were given limited access to these orders."


Another post:

"BTW, you are not supposed to take Bogus' things from him. Especially if you think that you can make better stuff for yourself."

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Foodstamp:

Ok, I used some time and did a proper search for Kristoffer's posts about Bogus as your reference was a bit untrue.

First post: [10-02-07]

"I like the fact that the VIsitors, Bogus and his merry men, have the ability to target commanders.

I think it can be fun in an SP game to get hold of these ancient tactical skills. The older the better (in accordance with the creed of most new religious movements). These are dom-ppp survivals and ancient to boot.

I think it would be naughty to use these orders in MP, unless all players agreed to their eventual use.

I think it would be fun if assassins were given limited access to these orders."


Another post:

"BTW, you are not supposed to take Bogus' things from him. Especially if you think that you can make better stuff for yourself."

Zeldor: I didn't reference any of the Devs posts.

Sombre: the You did not mean you personally. I meant if you (as in anyone) wanted something changed, it affects the people who don't want it changed.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Another post:

"BTW, you are not supposed to take Bogus' things from him. Especially if you think that you can make better stuff for yourself."

Ahahahahaha! That explains so much. Thanks for finding that.

-Max

[TwoBits]

There hasn't been a heated discussion like this in a long time - so thanks for the entertaining early X-mas present!

Otherwise, I think this is a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. As others have pointed out, it is supremely unlikely the developers will alter anything at this point, so this all comes down to house rules for MP games. So what's all the fuss about? You don't like the house rules, play another game.

IMO, these special scripts are highly unlikely to occur, but if they do, I can see how they can be unbalancing. Just had a normal MP turn where a Dryad with a Piercer (only 5 E gems - 3 w/ a Hammer - in CBM) gunned down an important enemy mage trying to assist PD. Her script was just 'Eagle Eyes', 'Fire Large Enemy', but she she still zeroed in on a human-sized mage (an Amazon, I think) at the expense of the PD units.

Game over in that fight, and that was just with whatever normal AI algorithms are usually run. But with special Bogus-scripts, and cheap ranged weapons, I can easily see how Bogus' tactics can be seen as game breaking.

But it would be so hard to pull of in MP (OK, Bogus has landed in my territory, and somehow I've got all sorts of free time to organize a Charm-crew, etc.), that it's hard to imagine it's worse than someone finding, say, the Circle Masters magic site, or a Conjuration bonus site.

In the end, I guess that's how I'd rank the outcome: Like finding Mt. Chaining, or that 50% off Conjuration site - yeah, potentially game breaking, but that's the way the lucky ball bounces in Dominions (but then I've seen that some people would like to ban powerful magic sites like that also).

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

IMO, these special scripts are highly unlikely to occur, but if they do, I can see how they can be unbalancing. Just had a normal MP turn where a Dryad with a Piercer (only 5 E gems - 3 w/ a Hammer - in CBM) gunned down an important enemy mage trying to assist PD. Her script was just 'Eagle Eyes', 'Fire Large Enemy', but she she still zeroed in on a human-sized mage (an Amazon, I think) at the expense of the PD units.

That's really interesting. Was it just chance? Can you re-run the battle a few times with new randomization? (Add a unit to the replay and immediately kill it, Shift-U + Shift-K, which resets the randomizer.)

-Max

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

That's really interesting. Was it just chance? Can you re-run the battle a few times with new randomization? (Add a unit to the replay and immediately kill it, Shift-U + Shift-K, which resets the randomizer.)

-Max

Um, I guess I could, if I knew how to do stuff like that Since I've never played around with the guts of Dominions before, I'd really need someone to walk me through that (PM me with details if you're truly interested).

But yeah, it was either luck, or the AI. Besides the Dryad snipers (there were two), all I had, of missile troops, were some monkey archers. They always fired right at the PD, and apparently so did the Dryads for the first few rounds.

Then about round 5 or so, right after the enemy mage - and it was an Amazon - cast Swarm, blamo, both shot at her, and one nailed her. So why did they change targets? Dunno.

[Belac]

As a new person on these boards, can I ask for a neutral explanation of the Mists of Deception brouhaha? I've never cast it or had it cast on me in-game, and the description in the manual is quite vague.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Um, I guess I could, if I knew how to do stuff like that Since I've never played around with the guts of Dominions before, I'd really need someone to walk me through that (PM me with details if you're truly interested).

I won't PM because others may be interested. The method is really simple: while watching a battle replay, type Shift+U (uppercase U) and type in a unit name or number, and it will add as many of that type of unit as you ask for to the battle in the place where your cursor was, as independent units. Type Shift+K to kill the units in the square your cursor is over.

If you do this, it obviously changes the battle from the "official" outcome that gets listed in the after-action report (X units killed, etc.) and it doesn't affect the actual game, but it makes testing certain things easy. For instance, you can test whether your killer army that just stomped all over somebody's PD would have done quite so well if the enemy had had 8 Wraith Lords there instead of PD, or if your mage had died before casting Fire Storm.

-Max

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

I won't PM because others may be interested. The method is really simple: while watching a battle replay, type Shift+U (uppercase U) and type in a unit name or number, and it will add as many of that type of unit as you ask for to the battle in the place where your cursor was, as independent units. Type Shift+K to kill the units in the square your cursor is over.

If you do this, it obviously changes the battle from the "official" outcome that gets listed in the after-action report (X units killed, etc.) and it doesn't affect the actual game, but it makes testing certain things easy. For instance, you can test whether your killer army that just stomped all over somebody's PD would have done quite so well if the enemy had had 8 Wraith Lords there instead of PD, or if your mage had died before casting Fire Storm.

-Max

OK, ran a few test replays (thanks for that Shift-U/K tip, by the way!). Interestingly, in none of the tests did the Dryads shoot at the Amazon Sorceress (or the other two PD-commanders, as far as I could see) again. Not sure what to make of that result, except to say that I must have gotten very lucky in the 'real' turn

But I can see how Dryads (or some other cheap A or N mage) armed with Pierces (or some such) and Bogus' friends' scripts, that could be really, really nasty...