Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Sombre

I think you overestimate the amount of fire protection your enemy is going to field. Regular armies are still around and without total fire immunity until the lategame sees them entirely replaced with items and summons.

If what you say was true, then I should see Fire Arrows cast all the time in CBM MP games.

For some odd reason I've never seen it used against me. Not even when I play Pangaea and use Mass Protection (which would make Fire Arrows even more effective).

It's cool to talk about the theoretical possibilities of a given spell, but my impression is that Fire Arrows is *not used*. If somebody steps up and say they use Fire Arrows and ignore fire evocations, then I shut up.

I would prefer to not read about theoretical number juggling. I spesifically have asked now three times if they've seen Fire Arrows used in CBM MP games, and so far none has told they have (unless I misintepret vfb's post above). I've also asked who would in CBM forego fire evocations to get Fire Arrows instead, and that doesn't even wake a discussion.




As far I've understood, Conceptual Balance Mod is about making items, units and spells more balanced. Does people feel Fire Arrows is balanced in CBM? Are the requirements (Enchantment 5 and a F4 mage) on par with what the spell does? Personally I think the requirement would be ok if it was in Evocation (where Flaming Arrow doesn't IMO fit thematically), but in a tree with zero Fire spells (oh, there is Fire Shield...) that is pretty close to ridiculous, isn't it?

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Jarkko

If what you say was true, then I should see Fire Arrows cast all the time in CBM MP games.

That doesn't logically follow at all. People could be underestimating fire arrows, they could lack the path access, they could have been too busy with other research, they could have different uses for the mages capable of casting it, they could be in a continually poor position to use it etc

It's cool to talk about the theoretical possibilities of a given spell, but my impression is that Fire Arrows is *not used*. If somebody steps up and say they use Fire Arrows and ignore fire evocations, then I shut up.

I've used fire arrows. vfb has used fire arrows. The use of fire arrows doesn't necessitate ignoring evocations. You've had literally two people respond. Like I said I don't have the MP experience to comment on its CBM usage.

I would prefer to not read about theoretical number juggling. I spesifically have asked now three times if they've seen Fire Arrows used in CBM MP games, and so far none has told they have (unless I misintepret vfb's post above). I've also asked who would in CBM forego fire evocations to get Fire Arrows instead, and that doesn't even wake a discussion.

See above. If you're patient you'll probably get more responses. You can also try in the IRC channel. I don't see the theoretical number juggling you refer to. I'm also unclear on who 'they' are. Me and vfb? We've both said we used fire arrows in cbm.

I don't have the experience with heavy fire nations (in cbm) to weigh up the early game applictations of fire arrows vs rushing up evocation. I did respond regarding vanilla, at the value you questioned the change from, where fire arrows are definitely legit to go for ahead of fire evocations in a lot of situations.

Personally I think the requirement would be ok if it was in Evocation (where Flaming Arrow doesn't IMO fit thematically), but in a tree with zero Fire spells (oh, there is Fire Shield...) that is pretty close to ridiculous, isn't it?

Not really. There are plenty of reasons beyond fire to be rushing down enchantment in the early/midgame. Fire arrows, being a single use per battle spell, doesn't require lots of fire mages. Just one or two of them. It can be cast by an F2 caster easily enough as well.