Guide: Guide to communions

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by earcaraxe

Hi!

There r some fact that i cant deduce from what i have read here and in the manual. I was experiencing (its my first try) with communions this morning, trying to get a feel for it. Here is the list of my commanders:

A - basic mictlan priest, B1H1, enc3
B - mictlan priest with 1 exp. star, B1H1, enc3
C - tepeyocatl A1B1, enc 4
D - hpots, B3F2H3, enc 6

D has 30 blood slaves. (it seems that unlike the other gems, blood slaves are common goods, every commander can use the other's (btw: from what distance can a mage use a blood slave in combat?).

The battle takes place in magic+1.

1 round:
A,B,C casts sabbath slave. using 1 slave apiece, so we r down to 27. A,B gets to 93 fatigue (that I understand), but C to 95 (i think it should be 94 but nvm, its only 1 diff), then D casts sabbath master: number of slaves: 24, so D's fatigue is 28 (just as i expected).

2. round:
D casts hell power. reamining slaves:21. its fatigue is 300 (270 with M+1), so each participant gets about 67. D has B4 now, so it's 33 for him, plus enc, so theoretically he gets to about 33+28=61, which is in reality 60, but its ok. Now the slaves get their share of the fatigue. They get 67 apiece, but because they r just B2 mages (HP is a B3 spell), it should mean 93(1st round)+134(HP)+3(enc)=240 total fatigue for A, right?
In reality his fatigue is just 157, which means he got 64 fatigue from th hell power spell. Its about the one-fourth of 270, so it seems he didnt get penalized for having only B2 for a B3 spell. (?) (its not that he gains HP's effect first then fatigue second, because the master didnt get it either)

300*[1/((4-3)+1)] = 150 fatigue; per person/4 = 37.5 ish per person. However, they are incapable (at b2) of casting the spell, so the encumbrance is doubled.

37.5 * 2 = 75 + 2*2 (their armor encumbrance) + (6/4)*2 = 3.
so the encumbrance should be 82.

You didn't say if this is under vanilla or cbm so the fatigue can vary between 99, 100-, etc.

So after the first round 93 + 82 second round = 175 minus the second turn recuperate. Also minus any additional negatives due to province magic scales.

3. round:
D casts Reinvigoration. new fatigues: A:53,B:47:,C:53,D:0. Counting the reinvigoration5 they got from hell power, thats about -100 fatigue on the slaves (for some mysterious reason B got a little less).

It worth mentioning, that for Reinvigoration D used 2 extra slaves, but didnt need to. My perception is that pots dont cast Reinvigoration unless i script it, and they always used 2 extra slaves so far (two tries only, so small pool of evidences, but its totally needless)

The AI will almost always use gems if casting a spell without gems will result in fatigue going over 100.

I do not off the top of my head remember the cost for Reinvigorate. I seem to recall 300. Regardless, so long as the fatigue is at least 100, all the slaves will cap at 200.

My guess is that reinvigorate is something like b^2*DRN. This is my personal guess, and nowhere documented.

175 fatigue ( -8 province - 4 recuperate) = 163 fatigue
- 16*7=112 fatigue is 51ish fatigue.

[thejeff]

Wait, is that how it works? Fatigue based on the masters level (w/ Communion bonus), divided by # in the communion then adjusted for the slaves level?
I'd thought it was base fatigue divided among the participants, then adjusted for each one's level.
That'll come out the same if casting spells at the master's effective level, but reduce slave fatigue drastically for lower level spells.

[Torin]

What about a group of mages casting communion slave without masters?
Do they boost each other paths?

[BigDaddy]

The Baalz guide seems to indicate so, but only for the puposes of taking fatigue... which would be what you're probably after. That would be very effective with warlocks if it was the case.

I also wonder... if you have just one high level mage be the slave, can't your little mages be spam casters? Say if the FoB 10B is the slave, you get sacked early on, and all your magelings cast Agony? The 10B blood fountain can cast agony a whole bunch of times, far more than most armies could ever endure.

[Squirrelloid]

Slaves without masters are pointless. Their paths are boosted but only for the purpose of absorbing fatigue *from spells cast by masters*.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by BigDaddy

The Baalz guide seems to indicate so, but only for the puposes of taking fatigue... which would be what you're probably after. That would be very effective with warlocks if it was the case.

I also wonder... if you have just one high level mage be the slave, can't your little mages be spam casters? Say if the FoB 10B is the slave, you get sacked early on, and all your magelings cast Agony? The 10B blood fountain can cast agony a whole bunch of times, far more than most armies could ever endure.

No. Slaves casting communion slaves *without* a master do not have their levels boosted.

However, untested, and yet I believe it to be true - once any communion master is cast, the slaves retain the boost even if the master dies or retreats.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

No. Slaves casting communion slaves *without* a master do not have their levels boosted.

However, untested, and yet I believe it to be true - once any communion master is cast, the slaves retain the boost even if the master dies or retreats.

Its not a general boost. It only applies to fatigue generated by spells cast by masters. So while the effect may persist if the master dies/retreats, it can't do anything.

[Ink]

With reverse communions you can have more mages in the communion actually casting spells, however in this case there is no communion fatigue reduction, and the slaves don't get boosted in their paths. What they do get is simply the buffs the masters cast on themselves. Thus, if a simple buff (such as earthpower) on all your mages would provide sufficient power/fatigue reduction to handle casting a desired spell, then it might be a better option than a normal communion.

A specialized type of reverse communion is the linebacker communion. The mechanic is the same: every slave gets whatever self buffs the masters cast. However now the idea is to turn a bunch of mages into thugs: have masters buff up with Invulnerability, Mistform, Regen, Quicken Self, Personal Luck, Twist Fate, and whatever else. Then a bunch of fragile mages suddenly become very difficult to kill. Masters can even retreat the battlefield once they cast their buffs, removing them from harm way, and the effect on the slaves continues (interestingly, the masters don't share all the buffs, they only get whatever they had cast).

I'm just waiting to see the Bogarus linebacker communion strategy: they are ripe for it. Maybe even better are the R'lyehs of all ages: all their mages are high hp and boast life drain.

[Jarkko]

Pans are excellent linebackers. If you have access to some indy mages with astral, you can buff them pretty close to insane efficiency. I still drool over the linebacker Pans I had in the Magellan game; had an amazon priestess with S1H1, amazon sorceress with S1A1 and a Pan acting as the masters -> the linebacker Pans got Holy Avenger, Luck, Ethereal form, ResistMagic, Astral Shield, Mistform, Shock Resistance, EarthPower, Stoneskin, Personal Regen, Elemental Fortitude and finally Reinvigoration (at which point the masters retreated off field and the linebackers went forwards to deal some pain).

It lasted for a very short while sadly, as then the Armageddons started and the amazons didn't live through them

[militarist]

Sorry.
"Slaves boost the power of both slaves and masters inside the communion by 1 per power of 2. This means +1 at 2 slaves, +2 at 4, +3 at 8, etc"

If +1 at 2 slaves than it would be +1 at 2 slaves, +2 at 4, +3 at 6, +4 at etc".

Where is the truth?