Weakest nation

anonymity · #1 May 1st, 2010, 11:43 PM

MA Argatha is definitely worse than MA Ulm. Troops are worse, they lack the improved HP and str and have similar enc for lower prot. Pale Ones and Ancient Ones are useless thanks to their atk score. No missiles in vanilla, xbows in CBM are 24 res which is the same as Ulm's arbalests. Stone Hurlers in CBM are useful if expensive, but they aren't in vanilla. No mounted troops, no niche troops like guardians. The E2 W1 F1 H1 mage isn't much good for anything, no astral access (2.5% in CBM) to make matrices, meaning they're difficult to boost in battle to take advantage of cold/fire/acid. You have E2 and E3 mages, which gives you E access about on par with Ulm's, but paying 400 for E3 (350 in CBM) is a huge rip-off. And no forge bonus, no iron blizzard (which is amazingly good), your statues are easy to counter and in a bad research tree for Earth, and the Marble Oracle doesn't compare favorably to the Iron Angel.

Oh and while the CBM changes help, no blood stones is a big blow to both nations, and IMO definitely offsets all the little advantages.

Tonno · #2 May 2nd, 2010, 04:51 AM

Hello I am new in the forums,and I am here to play online and to consult about the game...
I have some xp in the game,I even played it online (hot seat mode

)
And i have to say that all nations have the its good values...
Argatah,half night vision,I can not now recall the name of spell,but the spell makes the world dark,and units with dark vision (abyss and argatah) becomes verry verry strong,ofcorse i also think that argatah is one of the awful nations in the game,u need to use much spells when in combat if u want to win,and that means a lot of gems needed...
I am interested in what do you think about Marigon I play with the nation so I am interested in your opinions...
PS
A lot of shortened words but I have managed to catch the big part of it...And i do not know do u ppl play with any patches,i still do not have any...

LDiCesare · #3 May 2nd, 2010, 05:40 AM

Marignon can summon angels, therefore they rock.

Redeyes · #4 May 2nd, 2010, 06:02 AM

LA Marignon is very potent with its large potential in blood, the dominion game with sacrificing inquisitors, and good path spread.

MA Marignon isn't as good, due to their good mages being cap-only and because it lacks the versatility of the LA Marignon, some of the nations it competes against might also be stronger in this age (the giant nations for one, and some caster nations like Pythium and Caelum).

The Men-at-Arms are a quite powerful force for either age under CBM, where their gold cost has been greatly reduced.

ghoul31 · #5 May 2nd, 2010, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymity

MA Argatha is definitely worse than MA Ulm. Troops are worse, The E2 W1 F1 H1 mage isn't much good for anything, .

attentive statues have 22 protection and no encumberance, they are a hell of a lot bette than Ulm's troops. So you are totally wrong there.

And you think a w1 mage is totally useless? I guess you never heard of frozen heart.

krpeters · #6 May 2nd, 2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghoul31

And you think a w1 mage is totally useless? I guess you never heard of frozen heart.

Mostly useless. Effective against thugs, but definitely not worth 200 gold, and probably not worth even 80 gold for a pure 1W mage.

ghoul31 · #7 May 2nd, 2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krpeters

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghoul31

And you think a w1 mage is totally useless? I guess you never heard of frozen heart.

Mostly useless. Effective against thugs, but definitely not worth 200 gold, and probably not worth even 80 gold for a pure 1W mage.

I guess you didn't know that thugs dominate the end game. So a mage that can kill thugs is very useful.

krpeters · #8 May 2nd, 2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghoul31

I guess you didn't know that thugs dominate the end game. So a mage that can kill thugs is very useful.

Gotta survive long enough to reach the end game before that becomes an issue, and the nations we're talking about will be lucky to make it to the middle game. The EEF makes for nice magma eruptions then; the W doesn't contribute much at that point.

anonymity · #9 May 2nd, 2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghoul31

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymity

MA Argatha is definitely worse than MA Ulm. Troops are worse, The E2 W1 F1 H1 mage isn't much good for anything, .

attentive statues have 22 protection and no encumberance, they are a hell of a lot bette than Ulm's troops. So you are totally wrong there.

And you think a w1 mage is totally useless? I guess you never heard of frozen heart.

I guess you've never heard of scripting 5 turns at the back. Limited range spells are of highly limited use against thugs when the opponent has a clue, especially since these guys have earth and fire and therefore the spellcasting AI won't be forced into frozen heart when off-script.

Attentive statues cost gems, so they are comparable not to troops but to similar summons. CBM is 2 for 4 (Vanilla 2 for 8), so at 2 gems each they would be comparable to trolls (1 for 1) or cave drakes (1 for 4) if you want a sturdy low-research summon. Comparing them to Ulm troops is lunacy given their cost in gems and magetime.

edit: Going to pre-emptively add that although Statues are research 0 in CBM, by the time you can spam enough of them you are going to be researching conj 3 anyway for earthpower, so there'll only be a few turns in which the low research makes them more attractive than other E summons, AND early gemuse has the opportunity cost of delaying hammers and delaying boots which you also need as soon as possible. It's good that Argatha has them and they are usable, but only marginally so over conj summons.