.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Air Assault Task Force- Save $8.00
Bronze- Save $10.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 3: The Awakening > Scenarios, Maps and Mods

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 7th, 2010, 09:39 AM

llamabeast llamabeast is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 5,921
Thanks: 194
Thanked 855 Times in 291 Posts
llamabeast will become famous soon enoughllamabeast will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!

Sorry, can only post briefly, since at work. But a correction: Shishis have not changed since the original version, except for gaining +1 to attack (as in the first post). Version 1.01 did show that Shishis had gained magic attacks, since I thought I had missed out the magicness in the original version, but in fact I hadn't and so no change was made.

Also, as Calahan says, they have enc 1.

Zeldor's argument is hard to follow (although I was hoping he was right), since as NooBliss points out Shishis are immune to Fear, Awe and Ethereality, and cancel Mistform in one hit (and always did). Mirror image and luck are of course effective against them.

It remains the case that Shishis can very easily be killed, by e.g. the many methods that Squirreloid pointed out. However, those methods apply to most thugs; I think a little more thought is needed to work out whether the Shishis are out of line. I didn't intend to create an overpowered monster, no.

One tempting option is to remove the A2 and give them #onebattlespell Mistform. This will actually slightly improve them in battle (no fatigue from casting Mistform) but will remove the Cloud Trapeze option. I am not particularly wedded to the idea of them being able to Cloud Trapeze, although it is quite thematic.
__________________
www.llamaserver.net
LlamaServer FAQ
My mod nations: Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts
A compilation of high quality mod nations: Expanded Nations Packs

Last edited by llamabeast; June 7th, 2010 at 10:28 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 7th, 2010, 10:12 AM

Calahan Calahan is offline
BANNED USER
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Francisco, nr Wales
Posts: 1,539
Thanks: 226
Thanked 296 Times in 136 Posts
Calahan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamabeast View Post
I did intend to create an overpowered monster, no.
The English language is great on times, such as when two words written in the wrong order can completely reverse the meaning of a sentence


@ llama - I'd personally go for either removing the magic paths on the Shishi as you say (flying or auto Mistform are both fine as well. Flying would be my preference I think, though unthematic maybe? re: "runs like the wind"). Or keep the A2 and nerf them slightly. Don't think the latter will take much personally, as just dropping the quickness (for example) would do the job.

Also, doubt Mirror Image would last long as a defence against Shishi's, as with six attacks per round one is bound to hit home in the first few rounds of battle. And their effective attack of 20 ensures a high defence won't help much in keeping the mirror image up either.

This quickness is a large part of the problem for me, as 6 magic attacks at a value of 20 per round is just too much in my books (which will become 21 after the 1st fight). Strength+Damage is 20 as well (23 with Girdle), which is not the biggest total ever, but with so many hits being scored quite a few will count when factoring in the DRN. Plus x2 against evil things makes it 40 (46 with Girdle), giving easy potential damage of well over 100 per round, and that's probably without needing good rolls or poor protection. That's not just a counter to demons, that an outright massacre with that damage output. All for just 15 Air gems!

If dropping the quickness is too unthematic, then maybe drop the attack value a lot (at least 6+). As then you might be forced to kit Shishi's out especially to fight Thugs/SC's with attack boosting items, rather than being able to give them the same equally as effective Girdle+AMA for every single situation they find themselves in. Giving players some actual strategic decisions to make about equipping commanders is always a good thing IMO.


@ Zeldor - Sounds like you've been MP testing some random form of Shishi that got neutered at the vets

Last edited by Calahan; June 7th, 2010 at 10:39 AM.. Reason: Corrected girdle bit.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 7th, 2010, 03:48 PM

Valerius Valerius is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,046
Thanks: 83
Thanked 215 Times in 77 Posts
Valerius is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calahan View Post
If dropping the quickness is too unthematic, then maybe drop the attack value a lot (at least 6+).
I agree. Another option, if you want to keep the quickness, would be to combine a drop in attack value with only giving them one claw attack for a total of 4 attacks/round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calahan View Post
As then you might be forced to kit Shishi's out especially to fight Thugs/SC's with attack boosting items, rather than being able to give them the same equally as effective Girdle+AMA for every single situation they find themselves in. Giving players some actual strategic decisions to make about equipping commanders is always a good thing IMO.
Definitely. Generally speaking, I think units that have high HP/strength should not have great attack/defense scores and vice versa. It's strange to be defending tarts but it's worth noting that they and most of the elemental royalty don't have high attack scores. So I was happy to see the drop in attack scores for Grendelkin and Ember Lords (though I think the Ember Lord needs a further decrease).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 7th, 2010, 05:32 PM
Wrana's Avatar

Wrana Wrana is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 177
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Wrana is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerius View Post
I agree. Another option, if you want to keep the quickness, would be to combine a drop in attack value with only giving them one claw attack for a total of 4 attacks/round.
Especially as most normal monsters have just 1 claw attack regardless (tigers, lions, etc.). 2 claws are usually domain of things considered unusually quick or skilled (some higher demons mostly iirc). So these 2 claws should replace quickness, not be combined with it. Or - quickness & 1 claw attack as base...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.