EA Arco - uncle moneybags

[Baalz]

I've used this strategy verbatim, I'm a bit surprised how many people are dismissing it without even trying it. The ultimate answer is it works very well (in most situations), just try it. There are several people commenting that it worked well for them, and near as I can tell the people saying it doesn't work are speaking from a (flawed) completely theoretical point of view. For a bit more of a technical discussion...

As I discussed in my thug guide, mistform is a game changer spell as to what can thug. Magic weapons are a no-no, but theres plenty of situations where that's nothing you need to worry about when you're talking about cloud trapeze/stealthy guys that can dictate when they fight. Excepting magic weapons, once you get any sort of protection 25 point damage blows just doesn't happen so you've only got a 1% chance of mistform popping each time you get hit. Awe/vine shields trigger before defense (easy access to vine shields, no reason not to double dip), so if you've only got a couple people actually swinging at you each round, even a fair defense will counter most of them and against most foes you're looking at getting hit in the rough ballpark of a couple times per round. When you're talking about having a 20+ protection (iron /bark skin on top of armor) most of the times you're hit don't do damage (no chance to pop mistform). Again, just try it. Orieads with any cheap armor and mistform will only take roughly 1 damage every round even against pretty tough opponents. With regen (and reinvig) they just can't be taken down by regular troops - a pretty solid definition of a thug. With nicer equipment I'm not exaggerating that they can clear whole armies if the army is not fielding anti-SC strats (I've done it more than once in MP games) - a pretty solid definition of a SC. Magic weapons or mindless troops are easy thug counters for many thugs, but against "normal" troops - even pretty good ones the Oriead will clean up. Being able to pick up 100% elemental immunity to whatever seems appropriate cuts down a good bit on magic weapons you need to worry about.

BTW, even if you get unlucky and mistform pops from that 1% you're still pretty solid against plenty of troops with a 25+ protection, good defense, awe, vine shield and regen.

[Viajero]

Originally Posted by Baalz

I've used this strategy verbatim, I'm a bit surprised how many people are dismissing it without even trying it. The ultimate answer is it works very well (in most situations), just try it.

In my case, I am going to definitely try it! Mistform, stoneskin and the rest notwithstanding I'm just a bit worried about those 10 HP for a 400 gold, cap only, fully kitted etc unit In addition to smart play and skills one has to perform a sort of a Leap of Faith to get there I guess..

[Viajero]

Quick one the recommended pretender in the guide:

My game is going to be a "non standard" Indies at level 7. I made some tests with the pretender and scales recommended here but even fighting with the easy indies, as recommended, survivability of the Bull was borderline in the early game, and the slightest mistake in province selection for attack could easily end up ina dead bull...

So I tweaked a little bit the proposed pretender/scales so to get dominion 9, with awe, at the expense of the luck scale, to neutral (or -1, not really sure as away from game as I type). Although still need to be very carefull when selecting indie provinces to attack early game this pretender seems to have a higher resilience.

Any ideas/opinions on the above?

[chrispedersen]

Yep, I like my play of arco much better. = )

[Ferrosol]

Originally Posted by Viajero

Quick one the recommended pretender in the guide:

My game is going to be a "non standard" Indies at level 7. I made some tests with the pretender and scales recommended here but even fighting with the easy indies, as recommended, survivability of the Bull was borderline in the early game, and the slightest mistake in province selection for attack could easily end up ina dead bull...

So I tweaked a little bit the proposed pretender/scales so to get dominion 9, with awe, at the expense of the luck scale, to neutral (or -1, not really sure as away from game as I type). Although still need to be very carefull when selecting indie provinces to attack early game this pretender seems to have a higher resilience.

Any ideas/opinions on the above?

i find the bull way to fragile for expansion, I prefer to take a Cyclops myself you can get a Dom9 E6 cyclops O3S3Mis2M1 and he will be able to take on anything short of heavy cavalry especially if you can give him a weapon of some sort.

[chrispedersen]

Lord of rebirth. Gives you death access, and after you research alteration makes a perfectly fine Sc.

[Ferrosol]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Lord of rebirth. Gives you death access, and after you research alteration makes a perfectly fine Sc.

If you take him sleeping then sure he is a decent expander. but that still leaves the question of what do you use for your year one expansion?

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Ferrosol

If you take him sleeping then sure he is a decent expander. but that still leaves the question of what do you use for your year one expansion?

I'd like to echo ano's comments. I believe I was the first one - but I absolutely say the *best* unit in arco's repetoire is by far the chariot archers.

I cannot begin to say how good these units are. Ok, they aren't jag warriors. But they are hands down a great unit. Whats not to like with a cheap trampling unit with two forms? And with the special targeting options that archers get?

Now, as for sleeping or awake. A lot of people like the PoD - and he's a perfectly ok choice. However I like the Lord of Rebirth better. He generates an insane amount of gems, and provides fast access for dwarf hammers, and death path access.

As for 'you can't use him awake..'

you have to be careful with him. However, once you get earth meld you're golden. earth meld is 100 research points. And if you go with a proper arco build, each researcher is 10-12 rp (going from memory). Assuming its 10 this means that you have
100 rp on turn 5.


The question therefore becomes is 4 turns of expansion with your pretender in year one, worth the sacrifice in design points.

Personally, I can't think of anything else to do with the points, so I usually answer yes.

Now like I said, you need to be careful with him. you have to script something like:

Stoneskin, earthmeld, earthmeld, earthmeld, earthmeld. If you dont' script the earth meld.. he'll cast stupid stones.. and die.

So you accompany him with lots of cheap troops.. cardaces, or even slingers. Chariot archers.

You have to move him forward, or back, depending on the opposition he's facing. You want him close enough to have good precision on the meld, and far enough back he doesn't get mobbed.

But as I just scripted.. he binds up any opposing troops, and they run over them.