spotting when turning around your units

francoisD · #1 September 5th, 2010, 02:35 PM

just to go back to the initial post about the free turns within your hex allowing to spot units

i just want to know if multiplying the turns around all the sides of your hexes multiply the number of chances to spot units, or do you get a single chance per enemy unit and per the unit you turn currenlty?

if so, it would be unfair. but i do not know how the game is coded...

RERomine · #2 September 5th, 2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francoisD

just to go back to the initial post about the free turns within your hex allowing to spot units

i just want to know if multiplying the turns around all the sides of your hexes multiply the number of chances to spot units, or do you get a single chance per enemy unit and per the unit you turn currenlty?

if so, it would be unfair. but i do not know how the game is coded...

This is definitely an Andy question. From personal experience, I don't know that turns beyond the first have been any less likely to spot enemy units than the first turn. However, I can't really confirm this as it would require my knowing that I didn't see something that was there, which is a contradiction

Imp · #3 September 6th, 2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francoisD

just to go back to the initial post about the free turns within your hex allowing to spot units

i just want to know if multiplying the turns around all the sides of your hexes multiply the number of chances to spot units, or do you get a single chance per enemy unit and per the unit you turn currenlty?

if so, it would be unfair. but i do not know how the game is coded...

This was answered before I think, something like every time a unit turns its a new check. So depending on die rolls it could do better or worse.

A penalty could I suppose be added to subsequent checks but how? You can turn 1 faceing without penalty? it would have to be % based not a set number poor quality units are bad enough anyway & a set number would penalise them even more. As said I hardly turn any units only if I am fairly sure somethings out there. But often when I do I want to move him fire with others then spin him as he is the closest undetected unit.
If winning means that much my opponent wants to spin every unit round he can I wont know but how time consuming & boring is that. One of the things about this game is nice interface & quick speed of play the only thing that takes time is deciding what to do.
I have no idea if it is the case but it feels like units focus there attention on an area where fire comes from becoming more likely to see other units in that area. Perhaps this is tied into it turning slightly though dont think so but would not like to lose this it feels right.

francoisD · #4 September 7th, 2010, 06:49 AM

imp, if you are right, i think it is unfair and some people could try to cheat by getting an undecent large number of trials in some critical area.

i have lost many tanks due to size 0 infantry troops where there was intense fighting, and if you are correct, i will be ready to spin my troops in the same hexes dozens of times to be sure to not loose tanks by the same way any longer.

since i discovered that you can freely spot enemy troops when turning around within your hexes, i am already doing this at least one time in important areas, and it does not take so much time.

i do not know how you play, but in my games always appear many times intense fighting involving many troops, and i spend much more time in thinking about what to do and in what order than clicking with my mouse.

so checking with an elite scout dozens of time in the same hex just to discover new troops is NOT time consuming for me.

more and more i am thinking that something has to be added to the game to prevent such abuse of the game (i.e. unlimited free actions).

RERomine · #5 September 7th, 2010, 02:32 PM

I'm not sure it is really unfair, since everyone has the ability to do the same thing. If one side has an edge in troop numbers, they might be at a disadvantage in experience. A more experienced unit can spot better than an inexperienced one. When you boil it down, however, the more eyes you have searching, the more likely you are of spotting the enemy. I don't see anything unfair here.

francoisD · #6 September 8th, 2010, 04:25 AM

you do not understand the problem roremine

if imp is right, and i am not sure of this, a single unit get multiple chances to spot

assume a given infantry troop has a probabiliy of 10% to discover infantry troops, and 50% of bigger sized units PER TRY.

then simply by cliking several times on all the sides of a given hex, you raise all the probabilities to 100%

because you get multiple chances...

whatever the correct numbers, by clicking several times, you are guaranteed to discover all enemy units whatever their cover, exp, size, and so on...

i do not think this is fair. i think this is pure cheating and totally against the spirit of this game. and i am quite sure that some players already use this.

IF imp is right...

contrarily the situation you describe corresponds to the case a single unit gets a single chance to spot by hex. everything is fair, if you get more troops, you get more chances, balanced by the exp, of course.

this is the correct game.

the question is that, do you get multiple chances to spot by unit and by hex?

edit: or more exactly, do you get FREE multiple chances to spot?

because if this is free, players will try numerous times.

and we fall again in the second big question, if their is a price to turn your units in the same hex. because if their is a price, you cannot get multiple chances (or less)...

(except for units that the player does not intend to do anything else than spotting, but then to solve that problems we have to think together i guess)

Imp · #7 September 8th, 2010, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francoisD

you do not understand the problem roremine

if imp is right, and i am not sure of this, a single unit get multiple chances to spot

assume a given infantry troop has a probabiliy of 10% to discover infantry troops, and 50% of bigger sized units PER TRY.

then simply by cliking several times on all the sides of a given hex, you raise all the probabilities to 100%

because you get multiple chances...

whatever the correct numbers, by clicking several times, you are guaranteed to discover all enemy units whatever their cover, exp, size, and so on...

i do not think this is fair. i think this is pure cheating and totally against the spirit of this game. and i am quite sure that some players already use this.

IF imp is right...

contrarily the situation you describe corresponds to the case a single unit gets a single chance to spot by hex. everything is fair, if you get more troops, you get more chances, balanced by the exp, of course.

this is the correct game.

the question is that, do you get multiple chances to spot by unit and by hex?

edit: or more exactly, do you get FREE multiple chances to spot?

because if this is free, players will try numerous times.

and we fall again in the second big question, if their is a price to turn your units in the same hex. because if their is a price, you cannot get multiple chances (or less)...

(except for units that the player does not intend to do anything else than spotting, but then to solve that problems we have to think together i guess)

Pretty sure he does & %s do not stack up that way you would have to do it loads of times to get near to 100%. Mobhack obviosly has this on his to do list & if he feels its justified/fixable might change it discussing further wont change anything.
The only "person" who suffers is the AI as it does not do it but as a benchmark I am guessing most people use it less in a whole game than you do in a turn so for the standard player its not really an issue.

francoisD · #8 September 8th, 2010, 06:14 AM

how do you know what i am doing currently?

until up now i never spinned my troops in the same hexes. until andy told me it was as classical tactic.

now i am experimenting, and asking some details.

do you remember that i asked about this to be done automatically at the beginning of your turn?

if spinning troops in the same hex is a classical tactic, i am pretty sure that there are players, how many i do not know, but they exist, and they abuse the game

now if the designers of this game say that this is a real issue, but it would be too complex to solve for only a minority of players, i will understand that.

however i do not understand personnal attacks

and finally, roremine and others have raise the link between this issue and the difference about how react turretless tanks versus non turretless tanks