MP GotM: Gardens of the Moon, Game Over: WL wins. - Page 21

NebulousQ · #1 January 17th, 2011, 05:32 PM

I have taken over as Vanheim, thanks to Wraithlord and everyone for letting me sub into this game. I should be able to get my turn in today (Monday January 17).

Aethyr · #2 January 18th, 2011, 11:58 PM

Greetings NebulousQ, and welcome to the game.

NebulousQ · #3 January 19th, 2011, 12:05 AM

Thanks for the welcome!

Also, I guess we have to apply the patch for the next turn?

Aethyr · #4 January 19th, 2011, 12:18 AM

IIRC from past upgrades, Llamaserver process this turn either way, but will require everyone to upgrade before the next turn is due.

Herode · #5 January 19th, 2011, 04:03 PM

I've read with much interest the last public declarations of many lords here. And I want know to make myself humble and to bow behind the Silver Words of my Fallen Brother WL. I admit I am not a match for that kind of magic. I, ruler of Pythium, I have been trying to gather some help against the Ermorian threat from several nations, since say... t20 or so. Without any success, even when it was still something easy to do : Ermor was not at his best and his war machine was still asleep, the Zombies were just grabbing undefended indies all around their lands. But at this point, although the graphs were already very indicative, nobody dared to join Pythium against Ermor. Worse : one nation spoke to Ermor and told them what I was trying to do. End of round 1.

And now we are, the graphs are even more indicative. Everybody is able to see that Ermor still recruits swarms of troops despite the fights, when his opponents are now blocked. At this point, only Jotun, for obvious reasons, has agreed to engage against Ermor. Not a single other nation, despite my continued efforts, not a single other free nation joined. But some foolish rulers did join Ermor anyway.

Magic, I say.

And unfortunately, Ermor is now much more difficult to face than it was 20 turns ago, and Ermor has gained allies.

So my guess now is : either you, Lords of the Free and Living World, awake from your funest sleep and fight the Zombie Wave while it is time to fight, or the Fate has risen and the whole world will soon knee under the ermorian flag.

And you know what ? There's not a single foocking Whisky Distillery able to brew under such stinky scales.

You've been warned.

Vae victis & God Save the Talisker,
H. from Pythium

WraithLord · #6 January 19th, 2011, 04:56 PM

Oh such fine fearmongery as I've ever laid eyes upon. And from the mouth of one who has so much as admitted to play crown maker for Jotun.

Tsk. Tsk. So two leading nations, both considered to be top tier (one of which is IMHO the best nation - Pythium) both amongst the top three in the graphs, that control 5 VPs and 3 globals in common!!! - make a move to shred their opposition and crown the frost giants. And now that forces have awakened to oppose them they would speak as Sauron to the lords of Numenor, they would scare and they would speak sweet poison - all in an effort to break all bonds of fellowship and so take over the world one piece at a time.
Before that when Ermor stood alone and had zero chance of survival they sang a whole different tune.

Consider what would have happened had Ermor collapsed. Jotun = Jotun *2 or Pythium = Pythium *2. Now that's a scary thought, luckily for all I stand my ground and with help I may even survive this war whilst my allies grow to become super powers.

Hoplosternum · #7 January 22nd, 2011, 06:38 AM

In this game indies were at 9 so really early rushes were not as likely.

I can see why people get jaded with the manipulation, lying, recrimination and simple time that needs to be taken on diplomacy

But it is voluntary. And I suspect it helps reduce drop outs. If you are well behind in a game it is easy to become disconnected to the game and this can leads to drop outs. Especially when such a player, after dozens of quick 'at peace' turns, is suddenly faced with attacks by far more powerful opponents and has to take a long time over his last few.

Scouting depends. How many indie scout provinces do you find? Can you build stone spheres? Do you have cheap researcher options at your none capital forts?

I think Calahan's ideal settings might work well for the players who are doing well in the game. But if you aren't it makes you blind and mute. Not so good. Of course my and Calahan's preferences probably reflect that he is a good player who is used to winning or challenging for the win and I am often, well, not

Aethyr · #8 January 22nd, 2011, 07:02 AM

I find that I like both settings (diplo/non diplo) well enough as they provide a change of pace. What frustrates me sometimes with non diplo games is the inablity to trade. Usually this is not a game changer, but it has been my misfortune to be extremely unlucky in my site searching in several non diplo games, and I felt that if I just could have worked a few trades it.would.have.made.a.huge.difference.

Executor · #9 January 22nd, 2011, 07:11 AM

Calahan is on point about VP, tho I think I was the one who suggested this setup and I had no idea there indeed where those spots that marked capitals on this map at the time.

But still, I was the only one opposed to keeping track of current VP, as I do too think that's free info for others that have invested far lesser resources.

Personally, I prefer no score graph games BECAUSE one can run away with the win.

Even more so no diplo games, partially because I hate diplo, therefor don't bother with it much and often get stuck on the losing team.
Isn't it nice when you have a nice lead and everyone is too afraid to attack you but can't call for help as they usually do?

As for rushers, I believe they are just as likely if not even more so with higher indies. Rush nations have no problem with high indies while others will have a harder time beating them.
I myself tried to rush Ulm as soon as I realized caps were marked (tho I did not know it was Ulm at the time), and was at his capital around turn 7-8 already. Those sacred chopping infantry of Ulm made me pull back and deal.

And still I managed to invade Pang around turn 15-ish. And than there were TC and Cealum... and now Ermor and Mictlan... wow

Anyway, the reason people do run away with the win is because there are always only a hand full of nations that play aggressively enough to gain a lead. After that, it's as much as eliminating those few nations of similar power to win the game.
The rest, which is ofter the majority of players wait to long to make war.

I personally feel that you have to be out of your first war by turn 30 or so. Than it's back to research/build phase.
The sooner you attack a nation the better. There really is no point in "preparing" as with every passing turn your enemy will be preparing as well and anticipating, or planning, an attack more and more. So the only logical thing to do is hit someone before they hit you. If you manage to invade someone by turn 15 they'll always be caught with their pants down, will need time to regroup while you take that time to raid some provinces and ensure a gold lead, which in the end is all you need to rush someone, even if a non bless nation, just brute force.

WraithLord · #10 January 22nd, 2011, 03:51 PM

And did you never experience an early rush that ended in bitter early war that no side could win???
In diplo game you have the option to negotiate peace and look 4 an easier target but in non-diplo you're stuck and most likely will lose the game.

I'd add to your suggestion that it pays to be aggressive when the expected war is not going to be fair. When you have a big advantage.

Naturally, to each his own but I personally like graphs on games with or w/o diplo. I think I'll more or less stick to those in the future