Wishlist: Suppression: HMGs verses Artillery and Infantry

[Cross]

Infantry
I remembered an old thread that said rifle ammo units are 1 for 1 round, times the number of rifles in the section; and MG ammo units represent a burst of 5 rounds. But I assume this was for the squad LMG, which would mean it had 450 rounds available.

As one turn is about 2-3 minutes, this would mean that infantry are definitely being careful with ammo in firefights. But as you suggested, the game designers probably didn’t want ammo trucks all over the battlefield.

MGs
I can’t believe the same 1:5 ratio applies to crew MGs because they obviously cause a bit more than 3 times the suppression of a squad LMG, and as a crew served gun you’d expect them to carry and use a lot more ammo.

While we are doing all this speculating…let’s run with the 3 times more than LMGs, then perhaps 1 HMG ammo unit equals a burst of 15 rounds, in which case 90 units equals 1,350 rounds. 15 rounds would be a 1 second burst for a MG34.

This load-out, of just over 5 boxes of ammo, would also make sense as a reasonable amount that a 4 man crew would carry. Though, 5 boxes are only one minutes worth for a MG42 at full auto. But this would match the conservative use of infantry ammo.

Z-fire
The game was designed before z-fire was introduced. It could be that HMGs were considered more of an infantry direct fire weapon before z-fire, but are now more of a suppression/support weapon post z-fire, making them more closely aligned to mortars. And as such perhaps they should now suffer the same ammo supply issues as mortars?

I don’t know…It’s fun to kick this stuff around, but in the end it’s what makes a better game; and that may be in the eye of the beholder.

I think most – but not all - would prefer to limit z-fire, and ammo is certainly a way to do that. Some players would love to see ammo become more of a concern, even for infantry; others would prefer that ammo wasn’t something they had to worry about. But for those who don’t want to run out of ammo, there’s a little button in ‘Preferences’ called “Ammo Limit”, turn it OFF, and you and your opponent can fire z-fire all day long


Cross

[Imp]

limiting Z fire would need some sort of trust & think could exempt troops as only time I tend to do that is moving adjacent on occasion say in woods. The game makes it that inacurate with no LOS can easily pin your own troops which is correct they are blind firing.
Otherwise Z Fire main uses.
1) Firing through smoke normaly towards targets you had a LOS to, what Z fire was mainly introduced to allow I think.
2) MG is in transit misjudged LOS but important so fire anyway hoping splash hits
3) Soft targets in a group in LOS will Z fire if an empty hex may cause more splash especialy if they are running to keep them at it.
4) Firing at a hidden firer as in someone recieved fire from that hex but not visible.
5) If I know an enemy squad made it near my MG will attempt to pin it as the MG will probably not win the close quarters firefight.
6) On odd ocasion if my troops have blundered into others near by may try & pin them to save my troops from counter attack.

What I think you are objecting to is blind firing all or nearly all every turn just to fire them, I have not come across this very often seems a rare tactic.
Intrestingly as never really thought about all the above with the possible exception of 2 seem reasonable.

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by Cross

MG ammo units represent a burst of 5 rounds. But I assume this was for the squad LMG, which would mean it had 450 rounds available.

Speaking of the ammo available for a squad MG, historically a British rifle section would have around 1000 reserved for their Bren gun, and their German equivalent would pack around the same amount of ammo for their MG. US rifle squad would have around 500 rounds for their BAR.

As for the HMG sections, historically these tended to have lots of men to haul the guns and ammo. For example late war German rifle company HMG section would have 18 men, 2 MGs, 2 horse-drawn carts and horse-drawn wagon allocated to it according to the official TOE (with 3 of the men being designated as the cart/wagon drivers).