Behemoth? - Page 2

brxbrx · #1 January 23rd, 2011, 05:24 PM

I used to think it was whichever mage was commanding the elephant
so i'd always carry around a dedicated necromancer because I though otherwise my commander'd go useless.
then I learned to "view battle"

Corinthian · #2 January 24th, 2011, 05:48 AM

High damage spells (Thunder strike, Bane Fire) works well. Overwhelming number also work as long as they have not been made ethereal. Flamgerges and other anti undead weapons work. Finally. Things with huge amount of damage (Sepulchrals, Minotaurs) also work well.

Kobal2 · #3 January 24th, 2011, 03:34 PM

Any single target damage spell will target the Behemoths first (because of high HP and size) so early on Thunder Strike, Flame Bolts can do the trick. Later on you can count on Petrify, Disintegrate, Incinerate... Also note the Behemoths aren't Mindless like most undead (presumably because the necromancer mahout isn't) so Paralyse, Mind Hunt and Soul Slay all work, as do Charm and Enslave.

Of course, there's also the even cheaper option of massing archers or crossbows - Behemoths only have 7 protection so unless they're ethereal and you can't cast Flaming Arrows, missile fire of any kind will schwack them in short order (or cripple/limp them which is the next best thing).

I wouldn't really count on Earth Meld, Vine Arrow/Storm of Thorns or Fire Cage/Prison of Fire though: Behemoths are high strength and ridiculously high morale so at best those spells would only hold them for a turn... assuming the mage even targets them - AoE spells tend to target large concentrations first and that often means the skellispam screen. Besides if they're ethereal, one turn won't be enough for your guys to dispatch them unless you've also got a fire bless.
Crushers would be a good albeit expensive option to hold them in place however. Size 6 means they won't get flattened; mindless so the fear doesn't matter; and they've got better stats than the behemoths so they should come out on top of a trunk vs. fist contest even with minimal buffing or magic support.

JonBrave · #4 January 25th, 2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobal2

Any single target damage spell will target the Behemoths first (because of high HP and size) so early on Thunder Strike, Flame Bolts can do the trick.

Could you/someone please explain this to a newb? I thought targets (for most anything) were just chosen at random? It makes a difference if you know these spells are likely to target something useful...

Kobal2 · #5 January 25th, 2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBrave

Could you/someone please explain this to a newb? I thought targets (for most anything) were just chosen at random? It makes a difference if you know these spells are likely to target something useful...

I'm a noob myself so I'm not as knowledgeable about the arcanes of the domAI as some of the gurus out there, but I believe whatever spell you cast, the AI tries to maximize the number of total HP it will affect. At least for damaging and debuffing spells - I'm still puzzled by the AI buffing priorities.

But anyway, what this means is that single target spells will prioritize big hulking monsters (because they have a lot more HP than Joe Spearman next to them) while AoE spells tend to target large masses of chaff (because each square holds 3 guys, 10HP each, hence hitting just 3 squares of Joe Spearman (90 HP total) does more damage than killing, say, the lone and almost killed Prince of Death with brand and shield who's completely ruining your stuff.

I'm not bitter.

Jarkko · #6 January 25th, 2011, 01:18 AM

Just for the record (as it seems to me you Kobal2 are not familiar with what the heroic blade does): One turn is more than enough for two thugs with heroic blades to take care of a behemoth

I've seen four banes with flying boots and heroic blades (and no other equipment) chop up two fully kitted (with artefacts and all that) tartarian SC's in two rounds; the other tartarian was dead (err, or whhat ever it is that undad become after being slain) before being able to do anything (they were attacking), the other had time to cast a single self buff before it was chopped up too.

Kobal2 · #7 January 25th, 2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarkko

Just for the record (as it seems to me you Kobal2 are not familiar with what the heroic blade does): One turn is more than enough for two thugs with heroic blades to take care of a behemoth

I've seen four banes with flying boots and heroic blades (and no other equipment) chop up two fully kitted (with artefacts and all that) tartarian SC's in two rounds; the other tartarian was dead (err, or whhat ever it is that undad become after being slain) before being able to do anything (they were attacking), the other had time to cast a single self buff before it was chopped up too.

Well, by "your guys" I really meant Joe Spearman, but I confess I don't know what heroic blades are. I didn't find them on the wiki, and even with CBM 1.6 and the debug mod on I can't forge those. Is that some whacky mod gear ?

Jarkko · #8 January 27th, 2011, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobal2

Well, by "your guys" I really meant Joe Spearman, but I confess I don't know what heroic blades are. I didn't find them on the wiki, and even with CBM 1.6 and the debug mod on I can't forge those. Is that some whacky mod gear ?

Like thejeff mentioned, it is actually called "Hero's blade". Sorry for not checking the exact spelling at the time

I suppose you've not seen the adventures of Aracana the markata scout?

With a Hero's Blade and some assorted gear he went and chopped up giants left and right

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44001

Just to point out, the markata was a sort of a comedy test, but it proved suprisingly succesfull. After that I've tried out Hero's Blade in some more "serious" manners, and I've sort of fallen in love with the thing

I tend to get the best results by having more than one Hero's Blade wielder (two or three are usually enough to smack up anything before artefacts come around)) and rooting the target first (vines, earhmeld, fetters, etc). All you need is to make the large target rooted for one round, and it gets chopped up

Edi · #9 January 25th, 2011, 05:30 PM

High hit point and large size targets are prioritized.

Soyweiser · #10 January 25th, 2011, 05:30 PM

I don't know if spell targeting is completely understood, but it tends to go for max potential damage. So disintegrate will target the high hp large sixed low mr creatures first.

Don't know if you can abuse this. But you could use Dark vines (Large, high hp, lowish mr) for example to test this. (If this works it is a nice trick to use as any of the frost giant races).