Mod: CBM 1.8 released

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by rondj;

... Path levels ...

Thanks, I keep forgetting that.

Originally Posted by NooBliss;

You can. Llama's diversity mod did it, in my opinion - now every path has some nasties to summon.

Adding something is not the same as boosting an existing something to be more powerful. We where talking about specific item boosts and nerfs here. You are trying to make it about different magical paths. And the endgame diversity. Two totally different issues.

Edit: also there is a big problem with game development that you are never ever allowed to nerf something, or take something away, or a lot of players start to cry. This makes it very hard to undo game design mistakes. (Which currently, gemgens are. (It could be fixed if the gems showed up in the graphs, and if it was easier to take out the gemgens (Lets say, immobile slotless units)).

Originally Posted by NooBliss;

If something is good and everyone uses it, it doesnt mean it has to be banned, for hell's sake. Asinjas, Shishi etc are also good and gonna be used - will QM ban them too? I think not. Perhaps because these summons are straightforward and dont require as much effort?

It isn't only that it is so good that everybody uses it. It is because it is so good that you always get a guaranteed quick return on investment. A tactic that is only counter able by adopting the tactic yourself. See Hammers, Clams etc.

Originally Posted by NooBliss;

And the runaway leader problem is still there, in case you didnt notice. Whoever has more land gets more gems and gold, provided he also site-searches and had half-decent scales, of course. Is there anything wrong with it?

I noticed, the removal of certain items just makes it less pronounced. And it makes it easier for other nations to catch up.

And Asinjas, Shishi don't generate new gems etc (which is what a forge bonus actually is, a way to "generate" gems by using less of them). You need to put them in harms way, attack the enemy, get his lands. For them to be useful. (Sure they gen RP, but everything does, and there are cheaper ways of getting RP).

The controversial item removals all made it easier to reach the point where you couldn't do anything about a runaway leader anymore. Once the jadeknife dompush started rolling, it could only be stopped by ganging up on the player. Once you had enough hammers for all your mages you would just get a defacto 25%+ gem bonus each turn. Which all made nations with easier earth, or w3n1 access to strong.

Sure there are still spells, and sites which do this in the game. (A alteration 20% site can also create this situation, just as casting certain globals, or even certain nations are build for it (LA Ermor for example)). But you can at least see a lot of these coming, you can dispel the global, take the site, etc etc. They are counterable.

(And I would never advocate for creating penalties for the leader, as that would create neverending games. These kind of games should have runaway leaders, but not runaway leader problems).

Originally Posted by NooBliss;

Oh, I forgot to add - thats another reason I'll stick to 1.6 from now on.

Why are we even having this discussion then? Ow nevermind. This is already taking up way to much time.

But feel free to create your own custom CBM mod. Remove the item cost boosts, put the hammers, SDR, and knives back in. I'm sure there are still a lot of players willing to play your games.

Originally Posted by NooBliss;

Oh, some additional gold expenses. The horror.

You do realize that additional gold expenses are a big deal right? A blood nation already has a lot of expenses, upkeep gold, using mage turns to get slaves. So you have less mages for combat duty, RP etc. Some additional gold cost can be really painful then.

Gold, gems, mageturns (and thus fortturns) are the main resources of this game. They matter. And gold and mageturns matter even more for a blood nation. (you have one additional research path, and less researchers).

Originally Posted by Dimaz;

So if you lead in gems gold etc you should be able to create less of them or what? I'm intrigued.

You know what I mean. Stop trying to misrepresent my point.

Inclusion of gemgens, hammers, and sdrs makes it easier to increase a small lead into a big lead. After your basic needs are met (upkeep, expansion, some defense and research) you can pour the rest of the resources into these three classes of items, to quick increase your lead. With hammers a 2 e site was more valuable than a 2 d site. because after 10 turns the 2e would not be 20 e, but a permanent reduction in forging costs.

Sure you should still be able to use a small lead to create a bigger lead. But it should be more about the armies clashing, conquering territories, casting extremely powerful spells, etc.

Not using your labs to forge equip to forge more equipment. Not all games should be won in the forge.

Originally Posted by Dimaz;

Blood is powerful, and blood sac is powerful, but please show me a game won by blood sac alone or as the main part of the winner's strategy.

Sure, there is even a guide for it:
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...?showtopic=120
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45850

And I said it wasn't counterable. As preaching doesn't really work that well. And a indy priest with a JK generates 6 temple checks.