OT: For all the genocidal dictators...

capnq · #1 July 18th, 2002, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Where do you get your incorrect ideas about the US? I guess the European press must protray America as some sort of facist police state.

The European press? Try the American entertainment and news media (not that there's that wide a difference between the latter two).

Re: intelligence and reproduction, has anyone else read the classic SF short story "The Marching Morons", by C.M. Kornbluth?

[ July 18, 2002, 04:01: Message edited by: capnq ]

Growltigga · #2 July 18th, 2002, 06:18 PM

Crikey. I do not know what has been discussed on this thread since I posted yesterday, but the symantec firewall software we have has denied me access to about 2 pages of Posts on the basis that they contain restricted material..

What is going on? did Geo simply ruin our fun debate by reverting to simple swearing? has someone got smutty? what is going on?

BTW, in response, the European press does not represent America (generally) as a fascist police state.. what it does do is generally challenge quite a lot of the preconceptions many people have (including many Americans) about their own country. You have to remeber that America is not always well liked in the world community (the government policies, not individual Americans).

Geo, my chums at Cravath Swaine & Moore are going to email me the American Bar Associations recent synopsis on Freedom of Speech. I will send it to you (I have your eddress at home)... you will find it interesting and I will take a can of any non-American beer as a suitable apology)

geoschmo · #3 July 18th, 2002, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Growltigga:
What is going on? did Geo simply ruin our fun debate by reverting to simple swearing? has someone got smutty? what is going on?

It's shame you can't read the current Posts, although with the lack of ability you have shown for staying on topic, perhaps it doesn't really matter that much.

Quote:

what it does do is generally challenge quite a lot of the preconceptions many people have (including many Americans) about their own country.

Yeah, no subjective underpinnings in that statment 'eh?

Correct me if I am wrong Gt, but to "challange a preconception" don't you have to have a preconception of your own that the other person is wrong?

Quote:

You have to remeber that America is not always well liked in the world community (the government policies, not individual Americans).

I seriously doubt anyone in this country is suffering from that particular "preconception" any longer, if any of us were before.

Quote:

Geo, my chums at Cravath Swaine & Moore are going to email me the American Bar Associations recent synopsis on Freedom of Speech. I will send it to you (I have your eddress at home)... you will find it interesting and I will take a can of any non-American beer as a suitable apology)

Considering my previously admitted too low opinioin of lawyers, your request that I retain my disdain only for the American breed of such, and my previous statements on the subject, do you suppose I would care what the American Bar Association believes on the subject? However, I suppose it would be interesting reading, although you could save the postage and forward me the email. And if you are ever about in Dayton, I'll buy you that beer, but you'll get no apology.

We can toast to the Freedom of speech that allows these debates to begin with.

Puke · #4 July 18th, 2002, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Growltigga:
What is going on? did Geo simply ruin our fun debate by reverting to simple swearing? has someone got smutty? what is going on?

i mentioned liberachi. sorry.

geoschmo · #5 July 18th, 2002, 08:50 PM

Maybe there were too many refereances to "kiddie porn" and the european "free speech preventor" engine kicked in and is stopping him from viewing the thread.

Anyway, I copied and pasted what he missed in an email and sent it to him. I hope I didn't get him put on some "list" by doing that.

Geoschmo

Growltigga · #6 July 19th, 2002, 12:27 PM

It's shame you can't read the current Posts, although with the lack of ability you have shown for staying on topic, perhaps it doesn't really matter that much.

I am pleased I cannot reach the current Posts because my symantec anti-corruption software has blocked it. As this is written by Americans for Americans, I can only assume that you were discussing matters so heinous and disgusting that it really is not fit for public consumption..

As for staying on topic, absolute rhubarb, what is obviously confusing you Geo is the natural progression discussions take, and the way any debating of competing viewpoints will evolve. I shall ask you to keep your left field comments to yourself.

Yeah, no subjective underpinnings in that statment 'eh?

I dont disagree with your statements. We are actually getting on emotive ground (not necessarily for either you or me) here.

There is a very interesting argument here about the 'preconceptions' the average european say developed in the 1950's and 1960's about America, given its obvious strength as a world superpower and the cold war etc. The base discussions that were run (I am recalling my policitics, legal anthropology and public international law courses I did at University) were all on the premis of how world perception of America has changed as the cold war ended, Russia de-hegemonised and the global economy of europe and pacific-rim countries gained in strength. That change of opinion is still ongoing and unfortunately, my personal experience is that it is going somewhat southward

I seriously doubt anyone in this country is suffering from that

I think you are right, now. I dont think the same can be said of quite a few people (senior politicians and otherwise) in the past.

On a side note but related, the subject matter in the "OT I am proud to be an American" thread is a bit disturbing...

do you suppose I would care what the American Bar Association believes on the subject?

No, I dont suppose you would but the interesting point here from my perspective is that I am only reiterating arguments which your countries' own major professional association for legal services have raised.

In your case, as you disdain lawyers, you probably could not give a monkey's danglers for what they say... I just think it is amusing how their arguments reflect are own. The document will be with you shortly.

As for the beer, if I am ever in Dayton, I will join in a glass of expensive imported european/antipodean/central american or south african beer

[ July 19, 2002, 11:32: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

geoschmo · #7 July 19th, 2002, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Growltigga:
As for staying on topic, absolute rhubarb, what is obviously confusing you Geo is the natural progression discussions take, and the way any debating of competing viewpoints will evolve. I shall ask you to keep your left field comments to yourself.

I suppose you could see it that way. Of course the "progression" could also be interpreted as the fact that you were totally overwhelmed by my logic and could no longer defend your original supposition, ie. that the website in question is not protected by the first amendment, and instead chose to switch to a more acedemic, and thus easier to defend position about whether or not Americans do in fact enjoy the freedom of speech that they assume to enjoy. If you could explain to me how the one relates to the other except in a purely ancillary way, I would be happy to concede the point. If not I suppose I will claim victory on the first debate as you have consistantly refused to return to it, and we can continue our discourse on the second.

Geo