OT: I'm proud to be an American...

[jimbob]

Originally stated by Sparhawk:

But still in other countries such killing would be stated as mass killing of men kind. So therefore is its a wise thing to make a internationale court which doesn't look at political or other things that can blind a right judgement of the case.
And probaly this trial would be give a more wiser and fair judgement than any country can!!
Because the "crime" would be seen in more than one prospective, due to the larger amount of "life wisdom" from all over the world.

The (extremely controversial) politics surrounding the Isreal/Palestine conflict definitely demonstrate that there is very little neutrality in the world, and that the UN is an extremely political (versus moral) body. This is not to claim that there are no morals in the UN, but simply that the political nature of the body can result in questionable statements and positions. I refer you to the UN convention on human rights in South Africa Last summer when Islamic countries essentially stole the show (again) and drove through an anti-Isreal/Jewish resolution, while totally ignoring any wrong doing by Palestinian suicide bombers.

Please note, I'm not saying that Isreal is innocent of all crime, nor am I saying that only Palestinians are guilty of crime, I'm simply showing how politically driven the UN really can be. Do you really want to hand over National Soveriegnty to such a politically driven organization?

[Krsqk]

"I think this(TIPS) is something that is one more tool to fight this war. When the war is over hopefully this will go away. IF it does not then I am more than willing to fight for the Constitution."

There are only two problems with this. One, the war will never be over, for all practical purposes. There will always be people who hate freedom and who are willing to use any means to fight it. Two, no program ever "goes away" once established. The bureaucrats in charge will find another "need" for their department so they don't lose their funding.

[Phoenix-D]

"I do not want Bin ladin and his kind to win. I am willing to do what is takes to see that The American Constitution and America prevail."

This is kind of amusing when you think about it a little harder..

Oh, and does anyone else find the "outside the box but within the Constituion" commend the Justice deparment has become fond of laughable? This is of course *after* they've locked up an American citzen for a month without accusing him of anything..

Phoenix-D

[Puke]

Originally posted by The High Gryphin:
Do we have any historians on the forum that have studied about the 50's in American History that can talk about the trials surrounding "Communist"?

you know Gryph, i used to be proud that our country went through the McCarthy trials, that we survived the histeria and the paranoia and the prosecution. it was a good thing that our liberties and freedom of speach and personal privicy was stripped away then, because we survived it. it made us stronger. we had learned from our mistake, and would not have to repeat it again any time soon. lesser nations might have crumbled, but we stood strong.

now look at us. fifty years later, and up to the same old tricks. I expected better. Shame on us.

[TerranC]

Typing from a Cyber-cafe, just to check up on the forums before I leave:

Puke, with all due respect,
You are actually proud that your country went through the McCarthy trials?!

Now, if what you mean is It's gone, it's past and thank god that plague went away, I apologize, but the McCarthy trials showed how EASILY america collapsed under paranoia, and how others and it;s own citizens had to endure it's consequences.

Not only the commitee questioned just about EVERYBODY, save themselves, that lived in the U.S., they questioned, threatend, and blackmailed FOREIGN dignitaries and offcials, which caused the death of a Canadian Ambassador, and the commitee threatening to accuse some of the UN ambassadors as communists, save the communists themselves.

[Puke]

i didnt think i was that unclear.

i was glad we went through it, because i thought we had learned something from it, and would not have to face it again. if another governemet had gone through a similar crisis, it probably would have floundered and fell. we didnt. we learned, and got better.

now, we are doing the same thing. so we have learned NOTHING. it is a shamefull thing for us to now be repeating the same 50 year old mistakes. now any pride we may have had in our strength and resolve is thrown away by our foolhardy actions.

[Repo Man]

TIPS is double-plus-ungood, but it is necessary to protect the masses. Better off that not much be said about TIPS, since Ignorance is Strength.

According to Winston Smith, this war is unlike any other war. War is Peace, after all.

We must not forget that in general the art of all truly great national leaders at all times consists among other things primarily in not dividing the attention of a people, but in concentrating it upon a single foe. The more unified the application of a people's will to fight, the greater will be the magnetic attraction of a movement and the mightier will be the impetus of the thrust. It belongs to the genius of a great leader to make even adversaries far removed from one another seem to belong to a single Category, because in weak and uncertain characters the knowledge of having different enemies can only too readily lead to the beginning of doubt in their own right.

Freedom is Slavery!

Now everybody be a good citizen and goodthink.

[ July 17, 2002, 21:25: Message edited by: Repo Man ]