Conceptual Balance Mod v1.92

[Slobby]

Hey, EA Oceania, I like most of the changes, but the addition of the Triton Queen has me stumped. On first glance thug or baby SC chassis, BUT, she seems to have low astral? I summoned a couple and they ranged from S1 to S2. Now she's 55 water gems and with that astral she's just asking to be magic dueled to death, so realistically why would one summon her?

She either needs 0 astral or needs a price change imo - perhaps both? Water gems for EA O are pretty tight, and Grendels/Wendigo's are cheaper and with the right pretender set up easy to get, so once again why would one summon her?

[Bwaha]

Hi, do you all know that Helheims dwarves have a crafting bonus!

That means skull mentors are cheap...

While I like it, it seems to me a bit overpowered...

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by Slobby

Hey, EA Oceania, I like most of the changes, but the addition of the Triton Queen has me stumped. On first glance thug or baby SC chassis, BUT, she seems to have low astral? I summoned a couple and they ranged from S1 to S2. Now she's 55 water gems and with that astral she's just asking to be magic dueled to death, so realistically why would one summon her?

She either needs 0 astral or needs a price change imo - perhaps both? Water gems for EA O are pretty tight, and Grendels/Wendigo's are cheaper and with the right pretender set up easy to get, so once again why would one summon her?

Honestly, the Triton Queen is a throwback to Burnsaber's Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod and was created in the context of CBM 1.6 or so. Other things have changed to make her...less needed, let's say. That being said, the low astral was there to give astral access if you didn't happen to have any on your pretender.

[Shangrila00]

Is it possible to increase the output of the gemgens? I definitely agree with making them artifacts, but comparing with the Ruby Eye, the original artifact gemgen, they are really subpar, and I think most people agree they aren't worth forging. And that kills some thematic strategy, like the conversion of water/nature into astral for nations with lots of astral summons, or getting use out of the now completely worthless fire/nature crosspath and only slightly more useful earth/blood crosspath.

Say quadruple the output and triple the price of the clam and fetish to turn them into poor man's gem globals. The bloodstone is still worth forging regardless since it's a booster, but double its output to match the similarly priced Ruby Eye.

[rdonj]

I would hardly call earth/blood a useless crosspath. Can you say demon knight apocalypse?

[Shangrila00]

Originally Posted by rdonj

I would hardly call earth/blood a useless crosspath. Can you say demon knight apocalypse?

Depends. The mass summoning for demon knights is at blood 9, while tying up mages summoning one demon knight at a time is pretty bad, unless you have a cheap recruit anywhere that can do it without boosters. Is LA Marignon the only one that can pull that off? Otherwise, you'd get demon knights with ritual of 5 gates which doesn't need E/B.

But yeah, it's F/N that really is worthless with a worthless fever fetish. W/N can...summon Naiads if your only water access is your pretender, I guess, though its main strength did die with the clam. E/B is definitely the most useful of the lot now.

[Slobby]

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Honestly, the Triton Queen is a throwback to Burnsaber's Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod and was created in the context of CBM 1.6 or so.

Quite right, but now it's a later version of CBM and if no one says anything then llama may not catch it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease right?

[Nightfall]

Just some feedback, I have to say that the last CBM game I played completely turned me off the mod.

While I like the idea of EDM, at the moment the easy availability of these summons, massively overpowers any nations with a good early game.

They really need to be balanced better against the vanilla summon spells available, because at the moment they are simply overpowering them in every way.

My views on the ones I have seen in action:

Summon Zmey - The unit is overpowered, available too early and too easily summoned. Im less concerned about the power than the fact that it should be a level 9 spell requiring at least 6F.

Summon Shishis - Pretty decent core design, a little bit too much better than the other options at that level, maybe just a bump to level 7.

Great Kraken - Again a decent core idea, but like the Shishi is better than the other options at that level, bump to level 7 5W.

Call Grendelkin - Needs to be level 9 and require 5W, it's a better summon than water queens.

Overall I think my biggest problem is less that they are overpowered as individual units, as most can be countered, but that they are all way too easy to research and summon. The end result of this being that they effectively eliminate the mid game entirely and make most of the vanilla summons in the game redundant.

[PriestyMan]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

Great Kraken - Again a decent core idea, but like the Shishi is better than the other options at that level, bump to level 7 5W.

This pretty much makes it impossible to take anything else you say seriously...

Just because you got stomped by a player better than you, dont blame the mod, blame yourself.

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by PriestyMan

This pretty much makes it impossible to take anything else you say seriously...

Just because you got stomped by a player better than you, dont blame the mod, blame yourself.

And that has nothing to do with it... but is a good go to when you don't have anything worthwhile to say.

If you are trying to claim that a Sea King's Court (an equivalent level spell) is better or equal summon to 2.75 Great Krakens, I'm not sure that it's my credibility that's a problem.

End game diversity mod is a great idea, mid game diversity mod, which is what it is right now, is, in my opinion, terrible.