Polish OOB 5.5

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

Does "para only " apply to the 5.45mm RPK SAW as well ?

Yes - and maybe some special forces.

Michal

[Pibwl]

Helicopters

114 Mi-4 - precise name of this variant was Mi-4A. Used from 1958 (some 6/58) until some 1985 at least (now: 62-78) (needs change of first date in formations nos. 43-44).
Normal load is 12 men, max 16 (now: 112) (unit 312 in Russian oob has 116).
All were armed with 12.7mm MG (TKB-481 aka A-12,7), not 7.62mm - it concerns all countries using MG-armed Mi-4 in the game. I suggest to use weapon #177 renamed simply "12.7mm MG" or "..TKB MG" (other units using this weapon in the Polish oob shouldn't use it, BTW)

115 Mi-4 Gunship - Poland used definitely no gunship Mi-4 armed with rockets.
Needs date change in formation 45 - Attack Helicopter should be available from 1973 (Mi-2URN - see farther)

116 SM-2 - wrong name - this is just Mi-2. SM-2 was different helicopter (worth to be added by the way).
According to A.Morgała's book, Mi-2 was used by the armed forces from 3/68 (now 1/66).

117 SM-2 / Malutka - correct name is Mi-2URP. Apart from 4 missiles it has fixed 23mm NS-23 gun (there's no such Class 19 gun in weapons now) and a pivot 7.62mm PKM machine gun (#35?). Actually it takes onboard some 8 missiles, but has to land to reload.
Used from some 1973 (first shown) until 2015 at least (actually, with a gap in 1990-1994) (now: 1/75-91). Although, in later period it should have radio 91 or 93 - used for combat training mainly. Carry would be no more than 4 (108).

Proposed units:
- Mi-2URN - data like #117, but armed with one 23mm NS-23, pivot 7.62mm PKM and 32 x 57mm rockets (2x16). It can be two weapons #189 2x57mm S-5K with 8 shots each including some AP, or 4x57mm S-5K could be created. Used in 1973- some 2015. I suggest to replace Mi-4 gunship with it.

BTW: why not just change weapon #190 4x 57mm S-5 to 4x 57mm S-5K with range 40 and Heat 13, like in Russian OOB?

- Mi-2URPG Gad - like #117, with additional armament of 4 Strela-2 AA missiles #125. Used in some 1987- some 2015.
There could be also URNG version with rockets and Strela.
There was also Mi-2US with single 23mm and 4 x 7.62mm MGS, but I think it's not very useful.


118 Mi-8 - more precise name is Mi-8T. Armed Mi-8T were apparently used only from around 1973 (now: 1/68 - correct date for unarmed ones). Used until now, probably until 120 (12/86).
Mi-8s doesn't carry MG by default and never carried machineguns in the Polish service. On the other hand, it carries as a standard 4x16 tube 57mm rockets, so their number should be doubled or they should be replaced with 4x57mm S-5K. Icon of armed variant should be 1910.
Armed variant probably couldn't take 32 soldiers, especially, that 24 is quoted as normal load, and 32 as overload (4 launchers UB-16 will weigh some 600 kg).

119, 121 Mi-8 / Falanga - Poland never used gunship Mi-8 armed with missiles. It should be replaced with plain unarmed transport variant (used 1968-120, icon 1913)

120 Mi-17 - Polish Mi-17s don't carry a machinegun (as for now at least - there are such ideas for Afghanistan, but if so, it will be 7.62mm pivot one).
Armament carried by Mi-17 as a standard is 192 rockets S-5K (6x32 tube) - could be three weapons 4x57mm S-5K with 16 shots each, or new weapons 8x57mm S-5K with 8 shots.

122 W-3 Sokol - precisely, W-3T Sokol - plain transport variant used by the air force since 7/93 (transport ones were used by the navy since 7/89, but they were few and rather wouldn't operate for land units) (now: 1/89).

123 W-3WA Sokol - it should be available from 5/94 (now: 9/100) (to be precise, W-3W variant was delivered from 5/94, and slightly modified W-3WA was delivered only from mid-1996, but it's more numerous). According to Polish sources, 10 soldiers only can be carried apart from 2-men crew (now crew=3, carry=113) - there are 10 seats [Aeroplan no.5-6/04]. It shouldn't be Attack Helicopter, just an airmobile cavalry mean of transport.

There should be probably more gun ammo - it has 250 rounds (now: 4). It can carry only 20 rockets 80mm (now: 40) in 2x10 launchers (according to a quoted source and photos, they are carried only on two inner hardpoints). In addition to rockets, it can carry only tubes for HE cluster bomblets or minelets on outer hardpoints (little use in the game?) and 7.62mm pivot PKM MG in a window.
4x Strela missiles can be carried only instead of rockets on inner hardpoints, in addition to bomblets (there could be also mixed asymetrical variant of 2x Strela and 10 x 80mm rockets, in addition to bomblets). A photo showing weapons: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...05,_Poland.jpg

It has no special FC system (now: 15) - unit 428 has FC=4. It has no armour at all.
Radio should be 90 or 92 (now: 91) - most common helicopter at the moment.



124 Mi-24D - as a standard it can carry 4 missiles and 128 rockets S-5K (4x32) (now it carries only 32) (Mi-24D in a Russian oob also has too low number of rockets - 64. They are almost always seen with 4x32 tube launchers, sometimes with missiles as well). Used probably until 120 (12/106).

125 Mi-24W - most probably Polish Mi-24s don't carry 80mm rockets at all, I don't recall such photos and Polish Military Equipment book lists only 57mm. So, as a standard it carries only 4 missiles (now 8) and 128 rockets 57mm (now 40 rockets 80mm). Otherwise, 4 missiles and 80 rockets 80mm. Used until 120 (12/106).

126 MI-24PL Pluszcz - despite many talks on Pluszcz program, Polish Mi-24s didn't underwent any significant modernization eventually and plans were abandoned.

356-358 MI-24PL Pluszcz - as above.

One of them could be replaced with cheaper Mi-24D support configuration without AT missiles, only with 128 x 57mm rockets (AT missiles rather aren't useful for Iraq mission).

424 SM-1 - according to Polish sources, withdrawn by 1983 (now: 12/87) (needs change in formation #95). Max speed was only 185km/h (61 instead of 76) - for Mi-1 in all countries.

Proposed unit: SM-2 (correct one) - like SM-1, but carry=104, available 1961-79, speed=57 (170km/h), pic=29161.

428 W-3W Sokol - gun and pivot MG-armed variant, comments like #123 W-3WA Sokol (crew=2, carry=110, more gun ammo?, no armour). It rather shouldn't be Attack Helicopter, just an airmobile cavalry mean of transport. To be precise, first date of giving to units is 12 May 1994 (4/94).

667 W-3 Sokol - transport variant with pivot MGs - but there's no evidence, that plain transport Sokols (not numerous, anyway) can carry MGs at all (they had no opening windows, unlike W-3W). Other comments like #122 W-3T Sokol.

668 W-3 Sokol - as #667, with newer pivot MGs. Apart from doubtful existence of plain transport Sokols with MGs, it doesn't make much sense, since basic transport helicopters in this period should be armed W-3W.

960 W-3W Sokol - doubled entry of #428?

961 W-3W Sokol - variant with 23mm gun, 57mm rockets and pivot MGs. 57mm rockets are less efficient, than 80mm, but such configuration is used. Other comments like #123 W-3WA Sokol (it also can carry HE bomblets).

962 SW-3W Gluszec - proper name is W-3PL Gluszec [source Raport 9/2007]. Used from late 2008 at best (now 4/107) [source nTW 5/2008]. Can carry 64 rockets 57 mm (4x16) (now: 32), and pivot MGs.
Better option is 40x 80mm S-8 rockets (4x10) (it can replace one of redundant W-3s).
There is also known mixed configuration with 32 x 57mm and 20 x 80mm. It can be also armed with Western 70mm rockets in 4x 7-rocket launchers, but probably they haven't been commissioned in Poland so far.
(My photo of Gluszec weapons: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...c_PICT0134.JPG )
It is also supposed to be transport and support helicopter, not attack one. In this Sokol variant, light armour is correct.

963, 964 SW-3W Huzar - if Spike missiles will be integrated with W-3 (there are such plans), it will be around 2014 (now: 107) and it will be still W-3PL Gluszec (W-3W Huzar was a prototype from late 90s.)

965 EH-101 - fiction, especially from 2006.

966 SW-4 - introduced in 1/2007 (precisely, 12/06) (now: 1/105). Crew should be 1 and carry 4 (now: 2 and 3). It has no formation as for now (Light Helicopter). Might be named SW-4 Puszczyk (...name looks horribly, isn't it?).

967 Mi-2 Kania - modernization of Mi-2, never used by the army - only Polish Border Guard (I can check, from when).

968 Mi-14 - it's nice, but I don't think that such unit is useful - it's naval anti-sub or SAR helicopter. Anyway, it was used since 6/81 and carries no gun - only torpedoes and depth charges

970 SH-2 Sea Sprite - another nice unit, but of not much use - naval deck A/S helicopter. Their only anti-ground armament is 7.62 mm PK MG, but it was fitted only during a modernization in 2007. They don't carry rockets and are not supposed to do so in the future. Not an "Attack helicopter" definitely. It could probably take 1-2 persons more in sonar operator's cab, but not 8 nor much cargo (108).

I think that's all I've collected on helicopters at the moment...

Michal

[Pibwl]

Supplements and corrections of previous info (well, the research still goes on. I've just bought a new book)


025 SU-100 - according to a new source, 23 were bought in 1951-52. Still not a big number - radio code 1?

027 JSU-152 (ISU-152) - standard load was 10 AP, 10 HE (no Heat)

041 BTR-40A - in a new book by J. Kajetanowicz on the Polish land army 1945-60, there's no sign of such variant as well.

048 SA-3 Goa - I wrote: "Quadruple launchers appeared with S-125M Newa, from mid-70s only (probably 1973)" - according to an author on the quoted pages on AA missiles (retired officer), from 1974. Before that date, twin launchers were used.

056 BTR-152 - it appears, that first few were bought in 1951, but still first significant batches were bought in 1955 only (as I've written, there were only 6 in 12/54). IMO should be available from 1955.

068 B10 Recoilless (inf-RR) - start date at 1/55, as I suggested, seems close to reality.

078 57mm AT-Gun (1965-96) - should be removed in this period indeed, considered obsolete yet in 1950s. Even if they were stored, it's not a real option then.

082 85mm AT-Gun - possibly it was used from 1954, as I've written, but in 1/56 there were only 2 guns. Realistic start date is mid-56 (now 1/55) - a production in Poland started in 1955, so they quickly began to appear.

084 M1944 100mm ATG - starting date should be 1/51 (1947 quoted before referred in fact to period 1947-50, when they were bought)

086 ZPU-2 AAMG - used from some 1/55 only (now 1/50)

098, 99 Para Squad (50-54, 55-68) - in fact, Poland created first paratroop unit (6th Paratroop Division) in 6/59 only! (realistic date of readiness - some 1/60). Before that date, some paratroop scouts or special units could be used, but not as regular troops.
In fact it appears, that small numbers of P-27 Pancerovka were actually used - but for a short time only, so they should be replaced with more common RPG-2 anyway, used at the same time and finally chosen as a standard.

370 PTRD ATR Team - it appears, that theoretically they were withdrawn, but in practice still used until some 1952 (now 12/49). Other thing, that it was totally inefficient by then.

372 RPG-2 Team - could be even made as early, as mid-52.

373 SPG-82 RR - still there's no sign of usage (while the book mentions even small number of T-21 Tarasnice)

379 Anti-Tank Team (1946-55) - still no info on RKG-3 grenades, but also RPG-6 with pen 100mm were used (picture 00351), and from some 1957, RPG-57 with pen=140.

702 Marynarka PT-76 - better date of withdrawal is 12/95 - just as Topas APC mentioned before (last units using them were disbanded in 1994 - with safe margin, 1995).

Michal

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

379 Anti-Tank Team (1946-55) - still no info on RKG-3 grenades, but also RPG-6 with pen 100mm were used (picture 00351), and from some 1957, RPG-57 with pen=140.

By writing this, I don't mean to add an improved AT grenade from 1957, when better RPG-2 was already widespread. Only a basic AT grenade should have penetration 8-10 (RPG-43 or RPG-6).

Michal

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Helicopters

BTW: why not just change weapon #190 4x 57mm S-5 to 4x 57mm S-5K with range 40 and Heat 13, like in Russian OOB?

Already done last October and as well all Helicopters and aircraft were checked in all OOB's that use those type of rockets in the game to ensure the helo types are only used by helos and aircraft types are only used by aircraft and that aircraft only have "HE" ammo and that Helos have "AP" or HEAT rounds if applicable.

Off map aircraft do not use AP ammo as "AP". "AP" is the number of guns in an aicraft Unit Class so off map aircraft rockets that have HEAT warheads have a HE Pen rating while on map helicopter rockets are free to use AP ammo as HEAT and are set up with HEAT pen ratings and that was actually one of the first projects completed


Don

[Pibwl]

Time for the aircraft

127 Yak-3 - should be removed IMO. Yak-3 were pure fighters, very scarce in Poland (no more than 20), and all withdrawn by the end of 1946. It should carry no bombs - now it has 24

It can be changed to anti-tank Jak-9T with 1x 37 mm N-37 gun (#184) and 1x 12.7mm UBS (#175), no bombs, used until 1951 (Polish - also Czech, German, Hungarian spelling is Jak).

128 Yak-9M - it was armed in fact with 1x 20 mm and 1x 12.7mm UBS, not 2 x 20mm.

Despite Russian sources on Yak-9 don't say explicitly, that it couldn't carry bombs, but they describe gun armament only and don't suggest any possibility, that it could carry bombs (apart from very rare Yak-9B fighter-bomber variant, which was unique in that way, that it carried bombs vertically in a bomb bay). There are also no photos of Yak-9 with bombs. Certainly it was not common use. So it seems, that they shouldn't have bombs at all in the game, unless there is a source, that some user modified them this way. In Russia, it was Il-2/Il-10 aircraft to carry out ground attack, not fighters (not counting strafing - including 37 mm gun-armed fighters)

129 Yak-9W - in fact, Jak-9W (Yak-9V) was a two-seater trainer with reduced armament (1x20mm), no bombs and speed 5-6.
It might be changed to Jak-9P with 1x 20 mm Shvak #180 and 2x 12.7mm UBS, no bombs, speed=7 (8), available from 11/47 to 1954, drawing 29118. Anyway, this would be strafing aircraft only, little useful.

130 Yak-23 - Polish spelling: Jak-23. They carried 2x 60 kg bombs, not 25 kg.
Weapon #193 should be changed to 60 kg (it's the only user) - or #194 50kg bomb could be just renamed or slightly upgraded (it shouldn't be used by propeller Yaks, mentioned above)
In fact, operationally used from mid-51 (1/51)

131 MiG-15 - MiG-15s didn't carry obsolete RS-82 rockets, nor any other rockets in the Polish service. Could be armed with two bombs 100 kg - otherwise a new bomb-armed unit should be created. Used from mid-51 (1/50)

132 MiG-17 - MiG-17s didn't carry obsolete RS-82 rockets. Could be armed with two bombs 250 kg. It should be in fact named Lim-5 - Polish licensed MiG-17F (Poland probably didn't use original Soviet-built MiG-17s, or they were a small number). Produced in Poland from 11/1956 (realistic date: 1/57) (now: 1/55).

133 MiG-17F - same as above as for RS-82, name and date. This unit is therefore IMO redundant. (BTW, not used with camouflage, and used not later, than unit above - now 12/98)

134 MiG-17bis - there didn't exist MiG-17bis variant at all. Judging from 3x23mm guns, it is radar-equipped MiG-17PF. But standard MiG-17 fighters didn't use rockets in Polish service. IMO redundant unit.

135 MiG-17PF - bombs could be changed to 250 kg, but this unit is redundant, if we change standard MiG-17F (eg. #132) to bomb-armed variant (MiG-17F has stronger gun armament and is available earlier).
If we keep it, in fact, it should be named Lim-5P, available from 1959 (1/71) and end in 1970s (now 12/88). Later most fighters were converted to ground attack Lim-6bis/6M.

To end a subject of MiG-15/17:
685 Lim-1 - license produced MiG-15, strafing unit only. IMO redundant as a strafer.

IMO it should be armed with 2x100 kg bombs, and be available alongside #131 MiG-15 - Lim name is more strongly associated with the Polish airforce of the 1950s. But it should be in fact available from 1/53 (now 1/50)

686 Lim-1A - sources don't mention "A" variant (I don't know why it's supposed to have better vision). RS-82 rockets weren't used. To be removed IMO.

687 Lim-2 - licensed MiG-15bis. RS-82 rockets weren't used. Could be armed with 2x100kg bombs, to keep Lim-2 name in the game, but it's in fact redundant (should be used from 10/54 - now 1/54)

688 Lim-2A - sources don't mention "A" variant (I don't know why it's supposed to have better vision). RS-82 rockets weren't used. To be removed IMO.

689 Lim-5 - RS-82 rockets weren't used, only 2x250kg bombs. It is redundant, if we rename #132 MiG-17 this way.

690 Lim-5M - first trial of creating a ground attack variant, but used from 1/61 (1/60) until around end of 60s (now 12/84) - later converted to Lim-6bis. Better picture is 29113 - without camo.

691 Lim-6bis - basic light attack plane of that time - radio should be 90 (91). A number of rockets should be doubled - it carried 2x16 rockets S-5 plus 2x250kg bombs (8-rocket launchers weren't even used). Better picture is 29112 and icon 2809 - camouflaged ones.

692 Lim-6M - in fact, Lim-6M should be armed with 3x23mm guns, so it's better IMO to keep its gun armament (1x37, 2x23) and rename it to Lim-6bis (Lim-6M, differing in weaker gun armament only, appeared several years after Lim-6bis - 1971/72). Picture and icon - as above.
However, variant differing only with lighter bombs from the above one doesn't make much sense. It could be armed with 2x250kg and 2x100kg bombs instead.
There was probably a possibility of arming it with 64 rockets (4x16), but it's unseen on photos.

We could also add a cheap variant of Lim-6bis, with 32 rockets only (and drop tanks), without bombs.

End of part 1

Michal

[Pibwl]

Aicraft, part II

136 Il-10 - used until 1959 only (now 12/68). According to a Russian book on Il-10 [Aviakollektsya 5/2004], it could carry only 4 rockets (now it has 2x4), but better idea is to arm it with four 132mm RS Rockets (#191 from Russian OOB) instead of RS-82. In addition to 4 rockets, it could carry 2x100 kg bombs or cluster HE or AT bomblets in bomb bays.

RS-132 might replace RS-82 in weapons' file, to save a slot (it would replace RS-82 in Il-10 and Il-2, other a/c shouldn't use it anyway).


137 MiG-19PM - PM was an interceptor, without ground attack capabilities, and even without guns (reportedly it could theoretically use 210mm rockets, but not in Poland).

Could be changed to MiG-19P with two guns 30 mm and 32 x 57mm rockets (4x8). Used from 6/58 until 74.

138 MiG-19PF - name should be changed to MiG-19P (there didn't exist MiG-19PF variant at all). Used from 6/58 until 74. Apart from 2x250 kg bombs it should carry 16 x 57 mm rockets (weapon #190 4x57mm with 4 shots) (if it carried bombs instead of drop tanks, it should as well carry rocket pods on their dedicated points). Radio should be 91 - it was a rare plane, and not a ground attack one.

139 MiG-21bis - used from 3/80 until 1/2004 (1/80-12/98). Better picture of specifically Polish MiG-21bis is 29230 or 29349 (drawing).

140 MiG-21bis - as above. If we want to increase its punch, it can carry 96 rockets 57mm (2x32, 2x16) (now 64) - there might be added third weapon #190 with 8 shots. Radio should be just 90 (92) - it wasn't typical ground attack plane.

There could be created also MiG-21M - as above, used 1970-around 1990, armed with 64 rockets S-5 (it would be transitional in number of rockets between MiG-21PF and bis)

141 MiG-19PF - to be removed - MiG-19s weren't ground attack aicraft and didn't carry parachute bombs.

142 MiG-21bis - as #139. Publications don't mention using parachute bombs as an option in MiG-21 - it is doubtful. It could take 2-4 napalm bombs #221 ZAB-250 instead (even two 500 kg napalm bombs).

143 MiG-21PF - pictures of Polish MiG-21s are 29142 or 29230 (although later version)

144 MiG-21PF - pictures as above. This version could carry only 32 rockets (2x16; now: 64 rockets).

I don't know why MiG-21PF have vision 10, while more modern MiG-21bis have 0.


Other options to add:
- MiG-21M, used 1970-2000, armed with 4 rockets S-24 (weapon 023 from Russian OOB)

- MiG-21M armed with 2 x Kh-66 missiles, used in around 1972-89.
Kh-66 (AS-7) was basically an earlier version of kh-23 Kerry: HE/HEAT warhead 103 kg including 51 kg of explosive (Ch-25 has warhead 108 kg), max range 8-10 km. Accuracy around 50 - it was beam-riding missile. It can replace #206 Kh-23 Kerry (not used in Poland).


145 MiG-23MF - delivered in 6/79, used until 12/99 (now 1/79-1/99). In addition to 2 bombs 500 kg (1000 lb) it can take 2 x 250 kg (max 1600 kg). Better Polish icon is 1927.

BTW: weapon 198 - 1000lb bomb should be renamed to 500kg.

146 MiG-23MF - maximum number of rockets was 128 (4x32), not 160, so it should be given 11, 11, 10 shots. Delivered from 6/79, used until 12/99. Radio should be 91 - it wasn't a numerous plane.

Sukhoi planes will come later.

148 MiG-29 - no standard early MiG-29 can carry air-to-ground missiles. Publications don't mention usage of parachute bombs on Polish MiG-29s. Typical (and only?) anti-ground armament is 4 x 500 kg ordinary bombs or 80 x 80mm rockets.
Used in Poland from 1/89 until 120 (now 1/92-12/114)
It's worth to change pic from generic to Polish 29121 or 29236

307 MiG-23MF - redundant (I can't see any difference but the icon and narrower timespan comparing to #145 unit). To be removed IMO.

308 MiG-23MF - redundant (the same as unit #146, with less rockets).

309 Il-2m3 - it should be armed with two #185 23mm VYa cannons instead of 12.7 mm (standard for late model Il-2). It's worth to change RS-82 rockets to 4 heavier RS-132 (from Soviet oob) and 2x 100 kg bombs.

Other proposed variants:
- 2 x 250kg bombs only

- rockets and AP bomblets (if they are used in the game).

556 MiG-29 - S-13 rockets are not used in Poland. Could be armed with cluster bombs and 2-4 x 240 mm S-24 rockets (weapon #023 from Rus.OOB, quite obsolete though) or 40 x 80mm rockets S-8 (weapon #203).
Used in Poland from 1/89 (now 1/92)
It's worth to change pic from Serbian to Polish 29121 or 29236

557 MiG-29 - usage, picture as above. It isn't clear, if parachute bombs are used on MiG-29s. Could be armed with 4 x 500 kg bombs or 6 x #221 ZAB-250 FAE napalm bombs.

558, 559 MiG-23 - to be removed (I don't know what is their purpose, they sure won't be used in 2015-2020, for MiG-23s were withdrawn in 1999). In addition they have same armament as units 145-146 and 307-308 and icons of Su-22.

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

Fighter-bombers - the rest

Originally Posted by Pibwl

We could also add a cheap variant of Lim-6bis, with 32 rockets only (and drop tanks), without bombs.

- It would fit well instead of unit 133 or 134. Specs of #133 are OK for this purpose (apart from rockets), but used in 1964-1992, radio 90.
I think it doesn't make much sense to convert #134 to Lim-6M, differing from Lim-6bis in 3 guns 23mm instead of 1x37 and 2x23, used from 1971.

147 Su-7B (4 napalm bombs) - should be renamed Su-7BM or BKL, available until 6/90

Poland used only BM and BKL variants - both little differed in game terms, but BM were delivered earlier (1964). From 9/71, six-hardpoint variants started to replace four-hardpoint (in both models). I usually name 6-hardpoint model BKL.

149 Su-7B (2x 500kg bombs) - should be renamed Su-7BM, introduced from 6/64, withdrawn 6/90 (now 1/61-12/99). It could carry even 4x 500kg bombs without drop tanks (now it has only 2, like lighter MiG-21) (in case of war, planes with such maximum payload would also appear, on close range missions)

150 Su-7B (96 rockets 57mm - 6x16) - should be renamed Su-7BKL, used from 9/71 until 6/90.

Options worth to be created:
- Su-7BM with 64 rockets 57mm (4x16), from 6/64 until some 1975 (or 8/71, if we'd want to draw a clear line)
- Su-7BKL with 4 or 6 rockets S-24 (mentioned before, to be created), from 9/71 until 6/90 (configuration with 6 rockets is seen on photo)
- possibly Su-7BKL with 6 bombs 250 kg (from 9/71 until 6/90).

151 Su-7B (2 cluster bombs) - it should be renamed Su-7BKL, used until 6/90.
In addition to 2 bombs, it could carry at least 32 rockets S-5 (2x16).


152 Su-20MK (4 cluster bombs) - name was just Su-20 (Su-17MK was Russian designation). Used in 5/74-2/97 (now 1/74-12/98). In addition to bombs, it could carry 64 rockets 57mm (without drop tanks)

Possible options to be created:
- Su-20 with 10 x 250 kg bombs.
- Su-20 with 4 x 500 kg bombs (in case we haven't made Su-7 with 4x500 kg)
- Su-20 with 128 x 57mm rockets (4x32) (maximum payload was probably 192 rockets - 6x32)

They could replace #558, 559 MiG-23 (with Su-20 icon anyway)


153 Su-22M-4 (2xKh-25) - used in Poland only from 1984 until 120 (now 1/74-12/100).
All Su-22s should have laser RF. Since that date, Su-22M4s are basic Polish strike aircraft, so they should have generally radio=0. By the way, better way of writing name in Polish sources is "Su-22M4".

Apart from 2 Kh-25 missiles, it can carry at least 40 x 80mm rockets in addition (weapon #203) or 2 bombs 500 kg (not a maximum payload - with drop tanks).
A possible configuration seen on photos is 4 missiles Kh-25.

Other configurations, that should be added:
- 6 bombs 500 kg (maximum 8 x 500kg)
- 6 rockets S-24
- 80 rockets 80mm S-8 (4x20)

154 Su-22M-4 (2xKh23) - Kh-23 missiles weren't used in Poland at all. Su-22M4 can carry two heavier Kh-29 Kedge instead (#208 in Russian oob), and 40 x 80mm rockets or 2 bombs 250 kg in addition. Available from 1/84 as well.

155 Su-7B (6xPB-250) - it should be renamed Su-7BKL and used until 6/90.

156 Su-22M-4 (9xPB-250) - used from 1984 until 120.

157 Su-22M-4 (40 rockets S-8, 2 napalm bombs) - used as above.


585 MiG-29M (SEAD) - no early MiG-29 can carry air-to-ground missiles. Polish ones definitely don't carry any - to be removed.

The only Polish SEAD aircraft (before F-16) should be Su-22M4 armed with 2 Kh-25MP missiles (up to 4) and 2 bombs or 40x 80mm rockets.
Weapon 215 Kh-27 Kegler (not used in Poland) should be renamed to Kh-25MP - I think, data would be the same (it was the same family of missiles).
It would need date change in formation 155.

952 Yak 9M - as I wrote before, wrong cannon armament and shouldn't carry rockets - redundant unit IMO (Soviet fighters in 1941-43 were often fit to carry rockets, but from around 1944, newer versions of fighters aren't credited with such capability in Russian sources).

As for now, I leave F-16s undisturbed. I wish it was Gripen by the way...

To be added:
Avia B-33 - like Il-10, but armed with 4 x VYa-23 guns, from 1/54 until 1959 (armament: 4 x RS-132 rockets and 2 bombs 100 kg).

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

Now it's down the hill... Still a lot of units, but less absorbing. Part of them I'll leave till next year.

Rocket artillery

160 BM-21 Grad - weapons should be ordinary #128 122mm LR with range 211 (21 km) - I don't know why it is supposed to be "SR" with 201 range. There's no mention on such short-ranged rockets in Polish sources, and BM-21s from the beginning used standard 21-km rockets M-21OF. Used until 110 at least (now: 12/90), probably until some 115. Crew is only 4 (now: 12).

Therefore, weapon 104 is useless - it might be replaced with 122mm Feniks-Z rockets with range extended to 42 km [source Raport 8/05].

There should be created new SP-rocket launcher WR-40 Langusta, using modified Grad rockets Feniks-Z - in service from 7/2008 [source ntw 8/08], picture 14021, some icon with a short cab (396 could be, or 394 - fits better to Jelcz truck's flat windows), speed some 90 km/h. It uses 40 rockets Feniks-Z.

There should be created also unit WR-40 platoon with 4 launchers

161 WP-8 MRS - full name: WP-8z. Correct picture is 29333. Used until end of 1970s only (12/96) [source: nTW 6/94]

163 130mm M-51 MRS - there's no sign, that they were used in Poland. To be removed, unless somebody can find a source. At that time, Poland used Soviet BM-14s, which offered longer range.

164 BM-13 Katyusha - might be Polish spelling: Katiusza

165 BM-21 Grad Pl - as unit #160 - weapons should be changed to 128, used until some 115 (12/90).

166 RPU-14 MRS - they weren't used in Poland - there was similar own WP-8z developed.

167 BM-14-16 MRS - definitely used before 1960 - from some 1957 until 1989 at best (now: 1/67-12/96). Icon shows BM-13 - 2228 looks quite appropriate (described as BM-11), or 397.

168 BM-24 Pl - used until end of 1970s at best (now: 12/96 - definitely not that long). Correct picture is 11034 - now it's BM-21

...

295 RM-70 MRL-CM - CM rockets weren't used in Poland until recently, and now they are used first of all with modified WR-40 SP-launchers. So, this unit should be changed to WR-40 MRL-CM, in service from 7/2008 (data as above)

Therefore, weapon 212 should be changed to fit 122mm Feniks CM rockets, with range extended to 30 km [source: Raport 8/05]

296 RM-70 MRL - it can carry 40 rockets and 40 reloads (now: 40). Crew is only 4 (6) [Polish Military Equipment]. Max speed is 80 km/h (now: 15)

298 RM-70 Modular - isn't used as for now and little probable, that it will be


Michal

[Pibwl]

O/M artillery

171 155mm Section - fiction. M777 is not used as for now, and not in plans. Class is inappropriate BTW.

174 122mm Section (46-89, A-19) - correct picture is 36142 or 41091. Maybe it should be named "122mm Gun Sec" to differentiate from howitzers? And maybe it should be rather Heavy Artillery? (it was considered long-range gun then).

176 152mm Section (50-64, D-1) - last date should be 12/65 (12/64) to avoid gap before unit #186. But in fact I can see no difference between the two.

177 152mm Section (65-103) - D-20 howitzers weren't used in Poland. It should have ML-20 Gun-How, used from 1950 (in 3-gun unit) until late 1990s. Picture eg. 36141 or 29401 or 32015
Maybe it should be named 152mm Gun Sec.

ML-20 weapon (eg. weapon #239 from Czech OOB) could replace one of identical weapons #114 or #240 D-1 (and all D-1 units in the game should use a remaining one). Weapon #111 D-20 is used for Dana Sp-howitzer.

178 155mm Section+ - fiction. Not used as for now, and no firm plans.

180 100mm Support - Polish ships with 100mm guns were used only from 7/47 until 1967 (until a damage of the destroyer Blyskawica's machinery). Before 1947 there were no ships with real naval guns available (not counting allies). It would demand change in formations, if we want to correct it.

181 130mm Support - Polish ships with 130mm guns existed only between 1958-1986 (now: 46-120).

182 76mm Support - ships with 76mm gun are used from 1/84 only (1/70) - and only single naval guns are available after 2003.

186 152mm Section (66-99, D-1) - used until early 90s only (say, 1992 - now: 12/99) [not present in Polish Military Equipment book from 1998]

190 122mm Section (66-103, M30) - A photo of Polish late M30 howitzer is 29285 (with new tyres).

Rest later.

Michal