French OOB

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

Currently the foot support platoon (102) and Mech FS support platoon (107) don't have the mortars which the truck support platoon has. They also should have Milans instead of Eryxes and an option for the 12.7 HMG. Milans are used by the company support platoon while Eryxes are platoon level AT-weapons.

This is what I mean about raising more questions

These are support platoons. They lead off with Inf-AT units because they start at 1950 and before and inf-ATGM didn't exist then. 110 contains Inf-ATGM and a contemporary battle would offer either Eryx OR Milan to anyone buying 110. If I were to change to Milans I would have to make new formations and if I was to make new formations to give those formations inf-atgm units I would need to know when that practice started so I can set up start and end dates but before I start rearranging the structure of the OOB ( and perhaps the picklists the AI uses ) I would need to know FOR CERTAIN this info is correct beyond " probably"


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

For the 105mm French OOB Units 415 and 553 I think you can safely change the end date to be on the safe side to either 2000/or 2005 vice 12/2020. Also French OOB AUF 2 is not shown on the active French Artillery roster per the French DOD website showing current artillery in use. It's a start point...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/artillerie

Troops...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equ...l-et-collectif

Tanks with a couple of surprises...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/chars

Vehicles with some cross over units...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/vehicules

FELIN as I've already reported on...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equ...xperimentation

Thus far on ENERGA what I've found thus far is that it's a Belgian not French weapon still checking but no more this morning gotta hit the rack!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The donut hole for the the French 105mm field howitzer seems to fall between ~1975 to ~2005, the truth is in there somewhere and this has been a real challenge thus far, but I like a mystery. What needs to be watched for are the AMX 105mm SPA and the LEGION "Extraordinaire" who might have held on to them a little longer being somewhat outside the "mainstream" army and due to their mission as a rapid deployment force. It might turn out they still have them though, I draw no conclusions yet as I've not fully looked into it yet. Will stay on it. The tremors are only a few days away, be prepared!?!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

For the 105mm French OOB Units 415 and 553 I think you can safely change the end date to be on the safe side to either 2000/or 2005 vice 12/2020. Also French OOB AUF 2 is not shown on the active French Artillery roster per the French DOD website showing current artillery in use. It's a start point...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/artillerie

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product574.html

"
The first qualification example was delivered by the company to the French DGA late in 2002, who then commenced qualification tests.

Late in 2003 it was revealed that the French Army had changed its policy on the upgrade of the GCT, and the 155 mm/52 calibre version will not be procured in the short term at least"

The Auf-2 was the 155 mm/52 calibre version. They went with the Caesar instead

This entry probably went into the OOB over 10 years ago on speculation it would be introduced but , as everyone is finding out, it's not always easy to find clear info on French Equipment.

Those links look great in French but I don't read French and the English links are not the same information.

As for the 105's, I'm still looking it.

As for the AMX-30B2 I keep finding info that there was gun stabilization that was electronic,controlled by the ballistic computer but there always seems to be other sources that say otherwise


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Hopefully lighting will strike twice, first was with the Australian MOD about their tank platoon etc. size you might remember from a couple of years ago. In that vain, I've contacted NEXTAR concerning the French 105mm.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I still think you can back off the 105mm dates as suggested or at least back to 2010 from 2020, based on the French Army site provided that they didn't list it. However I have sent a further email just a few minutes ago to the Ministry of the Army. They do allow for information requests of that nature on the French side of the site. Basically asked for the 105mm artillery used after WWII and when it was taken out of service by both the Regular Army and the Foreign Legion.
The AUF-1/AU-F1 units are fine as they stand I believe as the 105mm search as crossed paths with that unit somehow on the web a few times. I'll be shutdown after Sunday for a few days so I hope someone will answer before that.

I BETTER HIT THE RACK BEFORE SOMEONE DOES ME BODILY HARM.

Regards,
Pat

[centurion77]

Concerning flamethrowers, the last I heard of them in French service was 1982 and I am certain they have been phased out.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the 105mm got into my head again earlier today, I should've been born a Bulldog, anyway no response from the French MOD to date except that they acknowledged they recieved my email, how nice.
So I just threw another "Hail Mary" and asked Jane's if they could answer the question on when the 105mm went out of service, maybe since I mentioned that the FMOD have not responded that it'll spur them on to do so...yeah and I'm expecting snow here in SE GA. any minute now also!?! Still trying.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Because it's no fun going to bed without frustrating yourself first, I thought I'd try a "shift in direction" concerning the French 105mm. Here's what we know during WWII the French were using the USA 105mm M101 and it is well documented they continued it's use through the mid fifties in Indochina, Algeria and beyond. By the the early sixties it has "disappeared". A) So did they buy the USA 105mm M102 that became available ~1963? No. B) We know they went very nationalistic in the early sixties as well, so did they redevelop their own program again? Well I've been unable thus far to uncover any evidence of that, except on an SP platform (AMX MK 61 105mm) which is in the game I believe. C) We have your earlier post in this thread and based off your source puts them still in possession of them until ~1992 I believe it was. D) The below ref. shows that GIAT which was French Government controlled I believe started developing the LG1 105mm Mk II ~1987 though only for export.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product573.html
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/f1_gct.htm
So I believe the we're back to ~1995 or sooner as your book indicated and that's in line when the AU-F1 GCT 155mm ceased production in 1993. The AU-F1 GCT 155mm and CEASAR 155mm are the only artillery in use with the French Army at this time.
Obviously the "Hail Marys" didn't work out French MOD or NEXTAR. I miss the Aussies, at least they responded to our tank unit questions.

I'm off to the rack.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I've just checked my email and got my answer from Ft. Sill. First I'll post my reply from the British Royal Artillery Museum again. I think I could really use the help of our French contributors out there, take a trip to Paris and go the main Military Museum and please ask someone there for me concerning the use of the 105mm field howitzer. Well I've got to 2021 I guess, I still feel that 1995-1997 is the best answer during Frances involvement in Africa during mid 1990s. A photo search is in order along with a couple of cards still up my sleeve.

From the Royal Artillery Library, Woolwich‏
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Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museum Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museumpaule@firepower.org.uk
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From: Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museum (paule@firepower.org.uk)
Sent: Tue 5/08/12 9:17 AM
To: patrickjconklin@

Ref. May.39
8th May 2012

Dear Mr Conklin

Thank you for your recent communication.

I’m afraid our holdings on French artillery aren’t as comprehensive as you would wish.

The 105mm Mk61 SP Howitzer on an AMX13 light tank chassis was taken into service in 1958 after ten years of making do with the Second World War vintage towed variant. By 1990 these had been reduced to Reserve use only.

The 1989-1990 edition of Jane’s Armour & Artillery states “During the mid to late 1960s GIAT developed the prototype of a 105mm light gun known as the Canon 105LTR. The prototype was not developed further but with the formation of the French Rapid Reaction Force (FAR) there arose the need for replacement of the French Army’s existing 105mm M101 and 105mm Model 56 Pack Howitzers. The Canon 105 LTR was revived for a while during the mid 1980s but has now been replaced with an updated model known as the LG1. The 105mm LG1 Light gun was a private venture developed by GIAT’s Etablissement d’Etudes et de Fabrications d’Armement de Bourges. By early 1987 three prototypes had been produced and these were followed by three pre-production weapons. As of May 1989 no firm orders for the GAIT 105mm LG1 Light gun had been placed.”

The 1999-2000 edition of Jane’s Armour & Artillery expands to include “Late in 1990, following a competition between GIAT Industries with the 105mm LG1 Light Gun and Royal Ordnance of the UK with their 105mm Light Gun, Singapore placed an order for 37 of the 105mm LG1 Light gun. Early in 1994, Indonesia placed a firm order for 20 105mm LG1 Mk II Light guns. In June 1994 the Canadians placed an order for 28 and in 1995 the Belgian Army ordered 14.


I hope this is of some assistance. I should add that as an independent museum we are dependent on visitor income and charges for research enquiries in order to support our facilities. Although there will be no charge for answering this enquiry, a donation is always welcome. Those wishing to make a donation should send a cheque made out to ‘Royal Artillery Museums Ltd’, and send it to the Historical Secretary, The Royal Artillery Museum, Royal Arsenal (West), Warren Lane, Woolwich, London SE18 6ST. Or if it’s easier you can visit www.justgiving.com/firepower/donate and we would ask you title your donation “Because of the Library”

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Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US) Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US)gordon.a.blaker.civ@mail.mil
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From: Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US) (gordon.a.blaker.civ@mail.mil)
Sent: Mon 12/03/12 4:34 PM
To: patrickjconklin@ (patrickjconklin@)


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Greetings,

Sorry, I've gotten nothing on French use of those 105mm howitzers. My best suggestion is Jane’s Armour and Artillery which I have found is about the best source for determining who was using what when. It makes sense that the Marines and FFL would be the last to use them. One possibility for leads might be Michael Franz who edited the Tankograd TM on the 105. I've no idea how to contact him. Also, members of the European branches of the Military Vehicle Preservation Association might have some leads.

Best of luck I know the feeling I’m trying to figure out how to adjust track tension of a WWII German Hummel,

Gordon Blaker

Director/Curator

US Army Artillery Museum

Fort Sill, OK


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Well I've always said this was a PITA. Now however, let's just say "It's my PITA and Windmill!?!"

Have a Great Day everyone! I NEED SOME SLEEP!

Regards,
Pat