Ulmish Drain magic spell

[Shardphoenix]

I think, I see a problem in Bbz`s approach: Nations with weak early game will be simply devoured earl on without a chance to defend themselves.

[parone]

i suppose that would be a question of degree. weak early game might mean not that easy to expand, not necessarily easy to eliminate.

bbz's ideas have merit. but shard, you are right, they could be tricky to implement.

but i guess ultimately, he was saying ulm shouldn't get stuff to make them strong late game cus they are good early.

i agree with the idea, but i hate it. cus i LOVE MA Ulm, and i SUCK as a player, so i want all the help i can get. but that is just me.

[bbz]

Originally Posted by Shardphoenix

I think, I see a problem in Bbz`s approach: Nations with weak early game will be simply devoured earl on without a chance to defend themselves.

No, but even if they don't get devoured(by some miracle) and you manage to persuade your opponents that its not going to be cost effective for him to attack you, if your early game is **** you start to rely on your neighbouring nations to be at war (or some wierd luck)so that you can get to expand enough (rather than just being marginalized to insignificance), with a late game nation you need to use every dirty trick in the book and fight like a lion early on (taking advantage of being the defender most of the time since you wont get the chance to attack someone that often) so that you can survive. So I just thought that that shuld pay off a bit more that it does now. And making early game nations "competitive" late game on a all things equal basis isnt the way to get there.


P.s This is not intended to be a rant, I am trying to show my opinion on what should be considered balanced. Since thing such as perfect balance don't exist. A game can only be balanced for certain settings.(take a 1v1 game against Niefelheim and lets say Patala who is going to win?? )
So I think that the community should come together and either vote for or agree upon certain standardised settings for which the game should be balanced. This should make llamabeast's job a bit easier (But since that is not going to happen) and it might make the game unfun. I just though that It might be resonable to share my views on the matter thats all

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Shardphoenix

I think, I see a problem in Bbz`s approach: Nations with weak early game will be simply devoured earl on without a chance to defend themselves.

That's where diplomacy and the map itself come in.

Take Bogarus for example: they are a ridiculously good late game power with both access to more or less everything in the book, the research to get to it quickly, and the best taxation system in the game.
They also have a weak early game because their national units are cheap crap for the most part.

Some games they get ganged up and destroyed before they can really get going, some games they manage to speed through to fire arrows or thunderspam and have the means to defend themselves. Some games people just leave them alone until they suddenly flip the lid off and murder everyone at once.

In the one game I played with them, they weren't attacked at all in the early game, even as I neighboured them. And I played Mictlan. So, um, yeah .
But I had other fishes to fry (or rather, other neighbours to kill) and of their other neighbours, Midgard had decided to rush C'tis (a wise decision, since LA C'tis has a terrific middle game) while T'ien C'hi was rushed by Atlantis and Man+Ulm allied to face Pythium's aggression.
Bogarus ended up being the runner up for victory (My nation won, but I wasn't at the helm by then).

Bottom line: having a weak early game doesn't mean you'll get instaganked, even if you start next to the most rushiest of nations.
And if you are instakilled, well, that's one game quickly over with and you can start a new one before having invested a lot of time in the former

[Shangrila00]

Honestly, I never understood why Bogarus was supposed to have a poor early game. Yes, their troops are pure crap, and so they would be on the lower end for expansion rate unless they take an SC pretender, but it's pretty insane to rush them as anyone except Abyssia or maybe Pythium. With Starets, they can pull out flaming arrows and a communion to cast it on turn 9 assuming magic 1 in vanilla, combined with cheap easily massed shortbows. Unless the map is ridiculously close, I don't think even Mictlan can do enough damage before their Jaguars get annihilated by the sky raining fire.

They are better rush targets in CBM since flaming arrows get pushed back to turn 11, but it's still crazy risky.