Where are the gas artillery rounds?

[Akmatov]

There is not any worldwide use of gas since WW1,except in Iraq on the Kurds.

Just a quick Google search turns up:

* 1963-67 Egypt used phosgene and mustard against Yemen
* 1975-83 Soviet-backed forces in Laos and Cambodia used Yellow Rain.
* 1979-84 Soviets used chemical weapons in Afghanistan, to include phosgene, Yellow Rain, older nerve gases and Flash, a newer nerve gas.
* 1984-?? Iraq used tabun against Iran
* 13 Feb 2012 - A Syrian defector from the Assad regime stated that Assad's forces were using nerve gas in its fight with rebels.


While trolling around the web I found this gem of Russian chemical science:

Novichok - Recently developed (1987 I think) choline sterase inhibitor (USSR). May affect human genes and thus damage could be genetically transmitted to offspring.
Skin contact and/or inhalation
Very rapid
Novichok 5 estimated to exceed effectiveness of VX by 5 to 8 times
Novichok 7 estimated to exceed effectiveness of soman by 10 times.

By 1987 Soviet scientists created a new binary nerve gas they called Novichok (pronounced no-vee-shok). Novichok (which means newcomer) has been
described as "a new toxic agent ... an injury with it is practically incurable ... those who were once affected with this toxic agent have remained disabled for the rest of their lives . Novichok agents are made of benign industrial and agricultural chemicals and can be made quickly in quantity. There is far less need to produce and stockpile vast quantities of agent or controlled precursors in advance.

destroyed by treaty agreements

Do bear in mind that the Sverdlovsk Incident (where workers failed to replace an exit vent filter in an anthrax munitions plant, resulting in anthrax spores being vented into the city of Sverdlovsk) occurred several years after the Soviet Union signed a treaty forbidding the production of biological weapons.

DIT: Turned up a reference to weaponized chemical agents and the smallest listed was "122-mm non-rocket artillery shells (2.9 kg),"; so I guess the Taliban will just have to rely on more conventional killing.

[whdonnelly]

Another problem with simulation of chemical or biological agents is the lack of hard evidence on the effectiveness. Lots of anecdotal stuff, but very little to no documentation as to the actual wartime use, effectiveness, conditions. And most of the data I've seen is often "interpreted" depending on who is doing the reporting. It would be a very tough simulation to sell to a group of us when we can't even agree on the effectiveness of 5.56 vs 7.62

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Akmatov

* 1984-?? Iraq used tabun against Iran

Iraq produced a few thousands of tons of various agents, such as various types of mustard, and used a fair portion of that, mostly against iranian troops. What fun must have been manning an iranian 155mm battery in NBC gear under the local sun is probably better left to imagination...
For that matter I vaguely recall that using chemical weapons against airfields was something considered in soviet and likely still in north korean plans. Sortie rate would have taken a big hit.

Another problem with simulation of chemical or biological agents is the lack of hard evidence on the effectiveness. Lots of anecdotal stuff, but very little to no documentation as to the actual wartime use

The effects of various weapons against personnel are going to be mainly anedoctal. Testing the effects of weapons on hardware is done sparingly as it is expensive, but say sticking a few guys in a trench and experiment how many artillery rounds it actually takes to incapacitate the survivors just cannot be done. Hence you have to rely on models backed by whatever data is available.
That being said I would be extremely suprised if the various WW1 combatants did not produce substantial amounts of paperwork on their use.

I know the Taliban occasionally mortar NATO bases, but I don't know what the minimum mortar size would be for gas. You would need more than just a few rounds here and there to do any real damage, but one could sure get the infidels attention with just a few sarin induced corpses

A small number of smallish mortar/rockets rounds loaded with some home made quality agent shot at random in the direction of of your run of the mill army base aren't going to accomplish much of note. It is far more likely to get oneself killed while producing the agent and loading it in the shells.

[runequester]

I think, like a lot of WARPAC theories, the gas and chemicals were expected to be beneficial in the initial shock. They seem to have been very very focused on driving a resolution in a very short amount of time, so it makes sense to hit them with /everything/ you have and try to overwhelm the opposition.

Of course, plans like that don't always work out right as basically any modern military operation can attest to. (maybe the recent scuffle in Georgia is a notable exception?)

[Wolf_Warrior]

destroyed by treaty agreements

Yugoslavia never officialy had any ABC weapons, but tell that to my frend who is in the army as an ABC soldier, and he had to take Chlorine from old wooden barrels in an army warehose and put it in the new plastic barrels. They also moved containers with VX in them.