Conceptual Balance Mod v1.92

[Executor]

P3D, yes Hinnom is better. I agree, it can do anything Ashdod can better, though I've never played against Gath so far so I won't make any claims for them. Personally, Ashdod seems better to me than Gath at a glance.
Generally, the unrest and pop eating is a large deterrent when taking Hinnom. I know it's not a big MM problem but people still dislike dealing with it. Well, me first anyway.

Kianduatha, you can even use ghouls to kill such SCs. Cast a few Arouse Hungers. A few successful attacks will ramp up his fatigue due to that paralyzing claw.

Valerius, you could use faithful for luck. A level 2 construct as well.

Anyway, do sole Adons make Ashdod unbalanced? No. They have an array of other nice stuff too. A lot of small things combined does. Like the recent boosts to MA Ulm.
Are Fomo Kings better for example? They can be. Certainly. But their sacred giants suck compared to Ashdod. And their mage force is near nonexistent. Anyone who's played them knows what I'm talking about.

Do I think Adons are OP? Yes. Do I think Adons are unbalanced? That too. I've seen what these things can do and I don't like what is Ashdod early on.
Do I think everything can and should be balanced? I don't for that matter as that would take out much of the flavor out of Dominions. But I still do stand by my earlier, mock comment, that without removing Adons, Ashdod couldn't be balanced. But like I said, I don't actually expect or advocate any changes to them. Some things just can't be balanced as they're built like that. Like Amos nations.
Are there better SCs than Adons? Yes, their EA bothers are much better. Does having one better OP thing make another OP thing less good? It does not.
Is Ashdod unplayable now since they got an increase of another point of enc? It isn't. Is it weak? It certainly isn't. Is it OP still? It is. Can the nation be adequately balanced? I don't think so.

All of this is my personal point of view. A lot of you probably disagree with me, which is a good thing, as if everyone advocated the same thing we'd have a much sorrier version of CBM now.

And one last thing. I get that people will, and should, have different points of views. I respect other peoples opinion. But I don't think if I state certain things ( even something radical like when I said why Agartha PD is hopelessly OP, or make a mock comment about Adons and state why they are still a killer unit ) that my comments should be argued in such a way or ridiculed. There's a fine line between debating and what's been going on in this thread.
So, I apologize for all my comments from last night. And if anyone else wants to have a normal debate of why Ashdod is far from ruined I'd be happy to.

BTW, I agree Zamzummite are fine like Valerius said. 1/4 will have D3 and 1/4 will have astral which can be as good or even better than D3. Though I find them slightly overpriced.

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by Executor

Is Ashdod unplayable now since they got an increase of another point of enc? It isn't. Is it weak? It certainly isn't. Is it OP still? It is. Can the nation be adequately balanced? I don't think so.

Enc-3 is a huge shift--even with an E5 bless it is impossible to get net-0 on your F2 and S2 Adons until either Const-4 for Girdles or scraping up an indy shaman with some nature income(or alchemizing and it just costing 10S) to make birch boots. And that's a pain--especially if you were going Conj-3 for your Earth guys. I'm tempted to say that Ashdod should only go E9 instead of E10 nowadays because you're not going to get quite there either way.

[Shangrila00]

Originally Posted by Executor

Personally, Ashdod seems better to me than Gath at a glance.

Consider your test game. Put the gear you forged on a Kohen Gadol, which as mentioned already, is basically an unequipped Adon with better magic. If you think your test game demonstrates an imbalance in Ashdod, why do you not think it demonstrates an even greater imbalance in Gath?

So, I apologize for all my comments from last night. And if anyone else wants to have a normal debate of why Ashdod is far from ruined I'd be happy to.

Odd, you say your ridiculousness on Adons was mock, but then you still stand by it. That you want a serious debate on why Ashdod is still playable or even that it's still powerful...which nobody has disputed except Ghoul, and is a far cry from that mock claim you stand by. You even say it's not Adon's per se that make Ashdod OP still, but lots of little things that add up...and still stand by your claim that it's impossible to balance Ashdod by looking at the little things, but instead Adons must be removed for that to happen.

Whether or not anyone wants a normal debate would have to depend on whether you only want to claim something not much disputed, or still everything you claimed last night, even if you take back the personal attacks.

Originally Posted by Nightfall

Lol, managing astral SC's is one of the easiest areas in which it's obvious to spot whether someone is a decent player or a complete scrub.

I wouldn't worry about it Executor, it's obvious to most readers who knows what they are talking about.

Hey Nightfall, surely you agree that Ashdod is only middle of the pack. After all, Man is the strongest bless nation in the MA right? But even you didn't claim that Man was massively OP.