MP: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Atlantis, I have reports that you have 2 wild ettins in province 6. You don't have any native nature mages, and your pretender is a kraken like mine, so Im guessing you didn't summon them. So Im assuming you bought them from that bugged site. I realize that the initial game post didn't specify this, but that is widely perceived to be an exploit. I certainly consider it to be.

Personally, I think you should not recruit any more, and try to find a way to suicide the ones you have. But if other people think it's ok, then I guess you could keep them, though I wouldn't be very cool with that.

[megawidget]

Originally Posted by BewareTheBarnacleGoose

Atlantis, I have reports that you have 2 wild ettins in province 6. You don't have any native nature mages, and your pretender is a kraken like mine, so Im guessing you didn't summon them. So Im assuming you bought them from that bugged site. I realize that the initial game post didn't specify this, but that is widely perceived to be an exploit. I certainly consider it to be.

Personally, I think you should not recruit any more, and try to find a way to suicide the ones you have. But if other people think it's ok, then I guess you could keep them, though I wouldn't be very cool with that.

Exactly. The initial game post didn't specify this. Frankly, I knew it was a bug but I wouldn't consider that an "exploit" anymore than using an alteration site to wish for gems an "exploit".

What do the rest of the players think, however?

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by megawidget

Exactly. The initial game post didn't specify this. Frankly, I knew it was a bug but I wouldn't consider that an "exploit" anymore than using an alteration site to wish for gems an "exploit".

What do the rest of the players think, however?

What?!?!

The free Ettin's are clearly a mistake caused by a typing error in the CBM mod. Free Ettin's are not intended to be available from magic sites in any way, and comparing them to anything else that is intended to be in the game is simply ridiculous. Regardless of how powerful you think what you are comparing it to might be. Plus the barrier to entry between using an Alt site for Wish and recruiting free Ettins is as wide as the universe itself.

And the fact that you know it's a bug and yet decide to exploit it anyway marks you out as an out and out cheating douchebag in my books.


Edit - You've made the HoF. Congrats! -- http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...ost&p=22003703

[megawidget]

Originally Posted by Calahan

The free Ettin's are clearly a mistake caused by a typing error in the CBM mod. Free Ettin's are not intended to be available from magic sites in any way, and comparing them to anything else that is intended to be in the game is simply ridiculous. Regardless of how powerful you think what you are comparing it to might be. Plus the barrier to entry between using an Alt site for Wish and recruiting free Ettins is as wide as the universe itself.

And the fact that you know it's a bug and yet decide to exploit it anyway marks you out as an out and out cheating douchebag in my books.


Edit - You've made the HoF. Congrats! -- http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...ost&p=22003703

This game has a lot of bugs. For that matter, the RNG itself may be considered a bug, and yet we live with it. So apparently, being hit by a bug that prohibits you from recruiting an underwater commander is OK (which I obviously don't need, but some other nation would have greatly benefited from), but recruiting a thug chassis is *not* OK? Who makes this call? You personally?

I know this is the internet, and I guess it's too much to ask every person not be a frothing imbecile who freely resorts to name-calling and being an obnoxious ******* (yes, I'm looking at *you* and your douchy icon), but I'm hoping the rest of the players will be able to respond to my inquiry much more civilly.

[krpeters]

For what it's worth, no, I don't think recruiting free thugs is a good thing to do.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by megawidget

This game has a lot of bugs. For that matter, the RNG itself may be considered a bug, and yet we live with it. So apparently, being hit by a bug that prohibits you from recruiting an underwater commander is OK (which I obviously don't need, but some other nation would have greatly benefited from), but recruiting a thug chassis is *not* OK? Who makes this call? You personally?

I know this is the internet, and I guess it's too much to ask every person not be a frothing imbecile who freely resorts to name-calling and being an obnoxious ******* (yes, I'm looking at *you* and your douchy icon), but I'm hoping the rest of the players will be able to respond to my inquiry much more civilly.

You are seriously clueless aren't you.

How the game engine itself works is something completely out-of-control of all the players and modders, and those who choose to play and mod Dominions all just have to accept this and deal with any of the bugs that might exist in the engine. (because there is nothing we can do about it other than report them and hope they get fixed). And comparing the use of a known, unintended and moddable bug to issues with the game engine is a seriously poor argumentative stance to take. Various community rules have been formed to deal with the limitations/bugs in the game engine (lab filling, scout blocking etc), and these exist solely because there is nothing we can do about those bugs. So are you also saying that it's ok to exploit any game engine bug as well because another bug allows the recruitment of free Wild Ettins?

Plus these 'game engine bugs' are totally separate from the bug you are using and exploiting, and again comparing the two of them is just you clutching at straws for an argument to support your decision to cheat. And what makes this all the worse is that you know the free Wild Ettins are a bug, and yet not only are you trying to say it's fine to use them, you are also trying to argue it against an overwheling community opinion that you are wrong, and that you are cheating. And you know you are chaating, and now that you've been caught you are trying to defend your actions with ridiculous arguments and comparisons.


And to further elaborate on your pathetic attempt to justify your actions, here is what you should do if you think something in the game, that can be modded, is too powerful or an exploit. (such as your claim about the Alt site)

1 - Go to the CBM thread and argue your case. If it's a good argument and others agree with you then there is a good chance something will be done about it in the next version.

2 - Create your own mod that removes or nerfs whatever it is you think is overpowered and/or an exploit. Then use that mod in the games you play.


What you should never do is cheat by using a known exploit just because you think using this exploit is comparable to other things in the game which you consider are exploits. Notice the word you is very important in this argument, because any player can form an opinion for himself of something in the game which is overpowered or an exploit, but if then everyone decided to cheat to counter their perceived opinions of an exploit, then both the game and the community would disintergrate. As your argument could just as easily be written as...

"I think Niefleheim are overpowered, therefore because they are in this game I now feel it is perfectly acceptable for me to cheat and use whatever exploits I can in order to make up for this".

Or rewritten to fit your arguments.

"I think the Alt dicount site is overpowered and an exploit, therefore because there is a slight chance that it might be in the game, and an even slightly chance someone might use it, I now feel it is perfectly acceptable for me to cheat and use whatever exploits I can in order to make up for this".

or

"I think the game engine has some bugs in it and these bugs are an exploit, and because a weird bug might happen at some point in the game, I now feel it is perfectly acceptable for me to cheat and use whatever exploits I can in order to make up for this".

Now do you see how pathetic your argument is?

Originally Posted by megawidget

but I'm hoping the rest of the players will be able to respond to my inquiry much more civilly.

I wouldn't count on this in your case. Since the Dominions community is generally a very good one, and we really don't like cheaters at all. Go and do a search for "Norfleet" if you want to see how highly regarded cheaters are around here.

Originally Posted by megawidget

...but recruiting a thug chassis is *not* OK? Who makes this call? You personally?

The admin decides. The wider community decides. The main modder of CBM decides (by declaring it a bug). Everyone has decided free Wild Ettins are a bug. And the one person who should never decide it is you. You cheating douchebag who wants to exploit them to his advantage.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.

I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites IS part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.

So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.

I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites is part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.

So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?

[megawidget]

Originally Posted by BewareTheBarnacleGoose

I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.

I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites is part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.

So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?

I can take off a ring of water breathing while in an underwater province? Somehow I didn't think that would be possible.

And yes, I see where you are all coming from, that's why I stopped recruiting them. I admit I haven't really figured wild ettins to be that great. They're naked giants with shoddy defense and rather worthless without construction research, from what I gather. But then, I never tried them unkitted so maybe they're secretly great and I just don't know. I saw reports of them on the CBM thread and exactly nil response to that. The vanilla exploits, however, appear to be well documented and linked from the strategy guide index.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.

I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites IS part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.

So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?