MP: YARG3, non newb MA+ENP2 RAND game. Executor's Ulm winner on turn 76

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by Valerius

Congrats, Executor! I've been keeping an eye on this game ever since I noticed mid-game that three nations that got boosts in the latest CBM were among the game leaders.

WL, I haven't played MA Van but based on my experiences with EA Van (not as good as MA IMO) I agree completely that they are a strong nation. What build did you go with? Light bless with good scales and some magic diversity?

Exec, do you think the only problem with Ulm is their Forge? I wonder how many of the games they won since the release of 1.92 they ended up casting their Forge before the game was already decided.

Oh, I tried many different builds but ended up w/:
van, King of Primordial Waters, King of Many Names, Councilor of Gods, Ruler of
the Ocean's Surface
Vanheim, Middle Era
Father of Winters (Body 1561, 88 hits)
Magic: Air 2 Water 9
Dominion 8
Scales: Order 3 Productivity 3 Cold 3 Growth 1 Misfortune 1 Magic 1
Imprisoned


It worked excellently and Van was on the top for a good part of the early+mid game and probably caused the most PITA to Ulm (AC).

I made the mistake of summoning the blood royalty. In hindsight I should have taken more cost efficient summons and earlier AC. But certainly MA Van is a strong nation as should be (nation of fierce vikings should be nothing else).

[Curious Yellow]

Wow, we can finally talk about this game now?

First off, congrats Executor on your win.

I played Eriu from the start until turn 53. One of the main lessons for me from this game was that I don't really have the stomach for lategame micro with large empires, so I burned out and subbed out. No more games with more than 6-8 players for me.

In my mind the turning point in the game was about turn 40? or so, when the Ulm-Ashdod war was winding down with Ulm on top and with an active Forge. At that point, Vanheim and Svarogia both attacked me and I felt at the time this ensured that Ulm would win. Ulm was left to turtle with the Forge and secure their holdings.

It's weird that Wraithlord rememembers it like I attacked him. I had just absorbed Man and the furthest thing from my mind at the time was war with Vanheim. The nation I wanted to go after was C'tis actually, but being attacked by Vanheim and Svarogia (which were both about my size) sealed my fate. The war started out okay, winning a few big battles but started losing a lot of small ones. Micro weariness really set in for me at that point and I didn't play as well as I could/should have.

My "war" with Pangea was the funniest part of the game for me. He couldn't find a way to kill my thugs in the field, and I had little hope of storming his maenad-filled forts with my commanders-only strategy. I took one fort by building like 5 siege golems, but didn't have a chance of putting a dent in his capital. Funny that he managed to hang on until the end of the game.

Made some mistakes with globals during the game as well. I tried overwriting Pangea's Mother Oak with like 60 extra gems, but didn't work - after that I really struggled with nature income. When war with Svarogia/Vanheim set in I tried casting Mechanical Militia, thinking it would slow down raiding - but it never came online, someone else cast a global and mine just fizzled.

By the way the 11th hour switch to CBM 1.92 kind of screwed my plans, removing awe from the Tuatha commanders. My testing showed that in order for the tuatha to be effective as expanding thugs against indies 9 with CBM 1.92, they needed to be able to self-buff barkskin. Therefore I went with an awake master druid with E9N4 + some astral/fire and terrible scales, so that I could research alteration 1 early enough to have a decent expansion. The forge bonus on the female commanders was a decent compensation though, which I made good use of later on.

[WraithLord]

Curious Yellow, I'm curious (but not yellow ) why did you attack me?- You and Ulm were both in great position and the "right" move for you was to duke it out w/ him.
It was obvious to the players that Ulm was OP so you would have gotten help for sure. I was just waiting for you to make that move and join w/ you.
But instead you attacked Van - a strong nation w/ excellent income, strong armies and gr8 blood income. What was your rational anyway?- Nullify us both so Ulm would have a red carpet to victory?

Calahan, I moved that stack b/c Ctis was massing armies on my borders in that area. I wanted a military presence in the area so that my lands wouldn't seem like easy picking.
I had more "death" stacks as Ulm has found out when he invaded me. In-fact IIRC we only had one real army vs. army battle and the Vans won the day. Taking into acct significant research + equipment advantage to Ulm I'd say yes, the buggers made me proud and earned their place at Valhalla

[WraithLord]

Curious Yellow, you attacked me first. I remember thinking WTF, now why did he do that?- He just signed off Ulm's victory

Savorgia joined after I reacted to your attack.

[WraithLord]

Let there be no doubt. On turn 45 CY's Eriu attacked me in two provinces: 155 + 142.
This in a no diplo game is a one way ticket to war and given the context a fairly stupid move. You may have won the game or had a much better chance had you attacked Ulm instead.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

Calahan, I moved that stack b/c Ctis was massing armies on my borders in that area. I wanted a military presence in the area so that my lands wouldn't seem like easy picking.

I haven't got the turns to hand right now, but was the province next to the Eriu cap the only province you could move to so that you covered the C'tis angle? Wasn't that army all MM2 or MM3? And to me it seemed C'tis's movements were very consistant with simply "grabbing a bit of Eriu", and I saw no intent against Van or Svag (although you may have different intel and view). But if that is the case then it looks like we both had little faith in our neighbours As you moved in reaction to C'tis, and I moved in reaction to your reaction.

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by Calahan

I haven't got the turns to hand right now, but was the province next to the Eriu cap the only province you could move to so that you covered the C'tis angle? Wasn't that army all MM2 or MM3? And to me it seemed C'tis's movements were very consistant with simply "grabbing a bit of Eriu", and I saw no intent against Van or Svag (although you may have different intel and view). But if that is the case then it looks like we both had little faith in our neighbours As you moved in reaction to C'tis, and I moved in reaction to your reaction.

Was it province 127?- If so, I moved there b/c earlier I grabbed from Eriu a good chunk of land to the south. When I saw Ctis making a quick grab for these lands I moved this army as sort of a "stop" go no further sign.

[WraithLord]

"Personally, I think you play too cautiously WL. That's something that stuck with me from our former games. I watched every single one of your battle from turn 30 onward. Actually i watched the entire map for quite some time. I had a few dozen crystal orbs and a very extensive scout/spy system going. There was nothing I didn't see.
Also monitoring the rest helped identify you too. "
You're probably right. I play chess a lot and that game taught me the benefits of caution. Perhaps it doesn't translate well to dom...

"WL, as per that battle, I didn't expect you to have that many (hidden) stuff there. Especially after losing those Treants and some other stuff the turn before I think?
Anyway, it was a nice battle, and you won it but I think you actually suffered more loses from it than me. "
Yes the treants were lost b/c of your unexpected attack. But in this battle my losses were not big, my dead commanders were reanimated due to LaD spell. And I got a huge list of "xyz got this and that item" messages

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

Was it province 127?- If so, I moved there b/c earlier I grabbed from Eriu a good chunk of land to the south. When I saw Ctis making a quick grab for these lands I moved this army as sort of a "stop" go no further sign.

Turn 66 - I took out Eriu's cap PD with Zmey's.

Turn 67 - You captured the Eriu fort at 169 with a significant army, and captured 156 with a bunch of Treants (a former Svag province it seems given site search info). While on the same turn I stormed the Eriu cap.

Turn 68 - I capture the Eriu cap and a huge force of yours arrives in 156 (the prov next to Eriu cap), made up of mainly the large force that captured 169. I am then forced to converge a large force on the Eriu cap to hold the walls in case you attack. (I was seriously thinking of attacking Ulm this turn while Shiny still had some life left, but this made me forget all about that)

Turn 69 - Your large force moves away to 164 (I think) and I send my converged force in Eriu out back in the direction of Ulm where they mostly came from.


So it was your large troop arrival in 156 on turn 68 that sent me the wrong vibes.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

But certainly MA Van is a strong nation as should be (nation of fierce vikings should be nothing else).

I agree; it's nice to see them back in strength after a long decline beginning with the great glamour nerf in a patch.

Your build is similar to my EA Van build (bless + scales) except I went with E4N4 instead, which gave me a couple more scales. But I did end up regretting not getting some S on my pretender since I could find absolutely no S mages throughout the game.