Attack Helos

[DRG]

Here's an excellent example of the type of info I'm looking for and I found this by accident. The only thing better would be a pilots report

It refers to the 30mm AC on the Ka-50

.....two ammunition boxes in centre-fuselage. Front box contains 240 AP rounds, rear box 230 HE rounds. Selectable rapid (550 to 600 rds/min) or slow (350 rds/min) fire, with bursts of 10 or 20 rounds.

If 10 round bursts are assumed that gives the helicopter 23 he and 24 AP/Sabot "bursts" of fire...... if 20 round are assumed --and given these are similar ROF's to the Apache AC and that may be more typical use than 10 rounds we are looking at 11 HE and 12 AP/Sabot or just split the difference and go with 12/12.

20 rounds fired or two second bursts seems to be a recurring theme with the 30mm AC's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Haven't checked my email to see if I got a response, however maybe the weapons table from the below ref will be of some help after all. Will try to find what the typical ammo load is for these three main guns shown for the newer Mi-24 models shown.
Half split or 2 to 1 ammo split on HE vs AP might yield some rough ref numbers. See what I can do without cutting into the deadline, that work starts tonight after work or tomorrow before work. It's almost like being Santa for some of these OOBs.
http://www.enemyforces.net/helicopters/mi24.htm

Regards,
Pat

[daferg]

I have got to admit I have learned a lot about helicopters in the past few days. DRG mentioned the KA-50 so I started a new search based on the heliopter. Did you know the the 30mm on the KA-50 is the same one thats on the BMP-2? Did you know that the primary model is a single-seater? I can't think of another single-seat attack helicopter. Did you know it has a real not kidding or making Russian Army jokes ejection seat? The main rotors are blown off and then the pilot is ejected by a rocket motor under his seat. The pilot also has the option of rolling out of his door to eject. They say you learn something new everyday. I found an awesome article that goes into great detail about the entire helicopter. The link is: http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/ka-50.php

I'll copy and paste the important info below:

ARMAMENT: Four BD3-UV pylons on wings. Up to 80 S-8 80mm air-to-surface rockets in four underwing B8V20A packs or 20 S-13 122mm rockets in four B-13L pods; or up to 12 9A4172 Vikhr-M (AT-12) tube-launched laser-guided ASMs with range of 8 to 10km capable of penetrating 900mm of reactive armour; or mix of both; Vikhr launched from trainable UPP-800 mounts, which can be depressed to -12°; single-barrel 30mm 2A42 gun on starboard side of fuselage, with up to 470 armour-piercing or high-explosive fragmentation rounds, can be depressed from +3° 30' to -37° in elevation and traversed from -2° 30' to +9° in azimuth hydraulically and is kept on target in azimuth by tracker which turns helicopter on its axis; two ammunition boxes in centre-fuselage. Front box contains 240 AP rounds, rear box 230 HE rounds. Selectable rapid (550 to 600 rds/min) or slow (350 rds/min) fire, with bursts of 10 or 20 rounds. Provision for alternative weapons, including UPK-23-250 23mm gun pods, Igla or R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') AAMs. Kh-25MP (AS-12 'Kegler') ARMs, FAB-500 bombs or dispenser weapons.

Now that I read it again I notice it says the same thing DRG posted but he used a lot fewer words. The article is worth reading just for the ejection seat.

ferg

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
This is interesting (I hope.), I just checked my email and posted it below. This is from "Steve" from the WEHMARCHT.com site. As you might remember he let me post his pictures in the JETS Thread and was a former LSV/LK MiG-29 and current Lt Col. in the LUFFWAFFEN and EUROFIGHTER pilot. My HELO Patch Post work for the DDR was based on his and Gordon inputs as well as my refs. HUMIT is always good if the source is I think we can agree this is the case here. You'll see when I asked for his input as well. I guess he likes a good challenge as well. I hope this will be useful to you and others in dealing with the Mi-24D/P (As there are distinations between them in what was asked for here.) Helos and any others that might share the same Auto Cannons.
Email addys have been deleted.

From: Dr. Stefan Petersen (stefan-petersen@.de) This sender is in your contact list.
Sent: Sun 3/10/13 8:13 PM
To: patrick conklin (patrickjconklin@)

Hi Pat,

how are You?

I managed to find a ground crew member which worked on the Mi-24 and he told me, that in the Mi-24D there was no selector switch. The manual recommended four to five bursts with 20 to 25 rounds each per attack. In the Mi24P there was a selector for the 30mm cannon but that could only be switched to high or low rate.

Hope that helps.

Best wishes,
Steve



From: Dr. Stefan Petersen
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:06 AM
To: patrickjconklin@
Subject: Re: HIND Pilots

Hi Pat,

I am fine, thank You, hope You are, too.

Unfortunately, I have no contact to any former HIND crew members and I also do not know anyone who has. I flew once in a HIND in 1991 but lost contact shortly thereafter when all the HINDs were phased out of the Bundeswehr. And as they were under control of the Army, I have also no connections to refresh ... it was the first and last time for me as an Air Force member to fly with the Army.

Sorry that I can’t help in this case.

Best wishes,
Steve


From: patrick conklin
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 9:31 AM
To: Stefan Petersen Dr.
Subject: HIND Pilots
Stefan,
I hope this finds you well!?! And I suppose your vacation has just ended or soon will be, coming back to reality can really...well...suck for a lack of a better term at this hour! Going to Savannah Ga. for an over night trip we can use the break, January has been tough. I'll fill you in next time but I'm glad it's winding down! But here's my request do you know still (Or someone who does.) any of the HIND Pilots? The reason for the request is to find out whether the machine guns/or cannons have a selector switch that allows for example a 10 round 1 second burst etc. or was it pilot gunnery training with what standards or a combination/or option to use ethier method. We have found the information out for the APACHE which basically is a 10 round 1 second burst, 20 Round 2 second burst and a 30 round 3 second burst. I'm sure the Pilots were trained to the Soviet standard of the time. We're good on the ROF for say the GSh-30k 2 barreled turreted 30mm carried on the Mi-24P at 300 rounds slow and 2400-2600 rounds fast. with a combat load out of 750 rounds stored. Any help again appreciated. Gave Gordon and you a "shout out" on my Patch Post Helo equipment list. If any Pilot or Gunner want to contact me directly they can at your discretion. Take Care of yourself and have a great weekend

Regards'
Pat

Regards,
Pat