Canadian OOB

Imp · #1 November 8th, 2013, 07:18 AM

A question for anybody that knows about Leos currently used by Canada namely unit 36 Leopard 2A6M & unit 35 Leopard A4M+CAN
Currently 2A6M end date is end of 2010 is this actually correct?
If it helps the A4M+ carried the shorter gun & I suppose my real question is did all Canadian Leos do so from the end of 2010?

DRG · #2 November 8th, 2013, 07:41 AM

as I recall 36 represents tanks leased from Germany and 35 are the one we eventually bought

I'll quote from wiki ( since everyone else does )

Quote:

The Canadian Army acquired 100 Leopard 2A4 tanks from the Netherlands in 2007. Twenty Leopard 2A6M were borrowed from the German Army beginning in mid-2007 to support the Canadian deployment in Afghanistan,[39] with the first tank handed over after upgrading by KMW on August 2, 2007,[40][53] and arriving in Afghanistan on August 16, 2007.[41] Two Bergepanzer 3 Büffel were loaned from the German Army for use with the Canadian deployment in Afghanistan.[54] An additional fifteen Leopard 2A4 tanks were purchased from the German Army for spare parts.[55] An additional 12 surplus Pz 87 were purchased from Switzerland in 2011 for conversion to protected special vehicles.[56] The Canadian Army will be able to deploy 40 combat tanks (20 2A4M CAN and 20 2A6M CAN) with 42 2A4s for training, all supported by 13 to 18 AEVs, 12 ARVs and 15 Logistic Support Vehicles.

however, from that is it unclear when we "un-borrowed" the 2A6M's and I don't understand the reference to being able to deploy 20 2A6M 's when all we bought were 2a4's. AFAIK there are no Leo's currently deployed in A-stan....HOWEVER......... this http://www.strathconas.ca/arrival-of...d-2-to-ldsh-rc links to a "fact sheet" that says, yes indeed, there are 20 2a6ms available so I will adjust the OOB even though I don't understand how or when we aquaired vehicles we had just borrowed

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #3 November 8th, 2013, 01:45 PM

Have to be in the "rainlocker" now, but in the short term go to the "Patch" thread PG. 1 POST #3.

Regards,
Pat

DRG · #4 November 8th, 2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Have to be in the "rainlocker" now, but in the short term go to the "Patch" thread PG. 1 POST #3.

Regards,
Pat

The problem is three of the threads don't work and the Jane's link isn't linked to anything related to the CDN Leos

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #5 November 9th, 2013, 03:07 AM

And they said the world wide web would be better in maintaining information...

, I guess that's why libraries are still around then!?!

In regards to the "casr" refs click on the high lighted items for further info. But in a nutshell... the missing link in this thread are the 100 Dutch Tanks that were bought during the time the Canadians were using the borrowed LEO 2A6M tanks. This is explaned below. The lessons learned from using the German leased LEOs affected the decision to proceed with the LEO 2A4M CAN which is in reality a hybrid tank (LEO 2A6M AND 2A4.) The 120mm L44 was chosen because it was considered a better MG in an urban enviroment. The 120mm L55 was considered more a Cold War MG for use in the more open and flatter terrin of Germany and is discussed in the refs. Also the armor protection is at the level of the 2A6M with better protection of the turret all around as the Dutch up armored all there LEOs, KMW just made the 2A4M CAN better for Canadian use.

http://casr.ca/doc-loi-leopard-tank.htm
http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2010/...o-afghanistan/

Again from the Fastboat Patch Thread; the below portion was taken directly from POST #39. We spent sometime discussing this on the pages between the posts offered in this thread thus far.

"MBT's AGAIN!?!
Don might have to rethink the MBT Item A6:
CANADA/NOV 2010/LEOPARD 2A4M/RESET/Came across this article on 6 DEC 2010. The Leopard 2A6M tanks Canada leased from Germany are being returned (Now) after all. This might change the complexion of the Q&A discussions we had concerning this issue. This was on the first patch page submitted.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news102921.html The last line says it all where things are headed, but that's for next year I would think.
UPDATE ALERT 12/07/10! I went back to the Canadian source I put in Post #21 of this thread. But I also want to draw your attention to Post #22. Here are the two points gleamed from this source.
1. Keep the LEOPARD 2A6M: 40 of the 100 Dutch tanks will be RESET to this standard therefore the return to Germany of the 2A6M tanks is a wash. 20-40 will be upgraded to 2A4M standard above what they got from the Germans. The rest will fall into utility conversions.
2. Might have to reconsider adding the 2A4M as it does have the 120mm SB L44 vice the L55 gun as I thought in Post#22. So we're left with a LEO 2A4M with the protection level of a LEO 2A6M with an improved 120mm L44 main gun.
http://casr.ca/doc-news-kmw-leopard-2a4m.htm Para 1 will also link you to the Dutch tank deal within the site if desired.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-canada-03208/ "

Since the above Post, Canada would replace the the German 2A6M tanks lost in combat or by attrition to Germany (20 Units.) the rest again from the Dutch 100 would be converted to the 2A4M CAN standard (~60 Units.). The rest of the Dutch tanks would be used as training tanks with a handful made into AEV types.

LEOPARD 2A4M CAN Specs:
http://casr.ca/101-army-armour-leopard-2a4m.htm

CF LEOPARD 2A6M (Leased from Germany.) Specs:
http://casr.ca/101-army-armour-leopard-2a6m.htm

CF LEOPARD Article index of related articles:
http://casr.ca/101-leopard-tank.htm

All should be good in the game.

Regards,
Pat

Imp · #6 November 9th, 2013, 06:46 AM

Your a star

DRG · #7 November 9th, 2013, 08:40 AM

It's all straightened out now. The 2A6M's now continue to 2020

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #8 November 9th, 2013, 01:32 PM

As I noted in the last the Dutch were the missing link and caused some confusion when I submitted the LEO 2A4M CAN in 2010 and in this thread. So for final clarification from the ref below and as posted in the last this backs up Dons final decision to keep the LEO 2A6M CAN.
"Update: With the end of the CF combat mission in Afghanistan, these borrowed Leopard 2A6Ms are being returned to the Bundeswehr. Note that some of the ex-Netherlands Leopards were 2A6s with L55 barrels and will be brought up to full Leopard 2A6M CAN standards"
http://casr.ca/101-army-armour-leopard-2a6m.htm

Canada has not deployed the LEO's since the first 2A4M CAN tanks came home. I believe if memory serves they are using (or were since.) using leased CV 9020 units. That being said the LEO 2A4M CAN was highly successful in it's deployment to Afganistan and I believe the best tank Canada has operated with to this point.

John thank you but, I suspect there are some that might use a different four letter word!?!

So for them and everyone else have a great weekend!!

Regards,
Pat