Official SE:IV Gold Patch 2 thread...

[Wizarc]

Opps forgot to read further up.

[ August 13, 2002, 09:50: Message edited by: Wizarc ]

[oleg]

What I do not like : Even before this patch, bigger ships were almost always better then smaller ships. Now, the finally fixed emissive armor emphasize weapon mounts and hence ship size even more. Plus new shield mounts. IMHO, it would be a good idea to increase the cost of bigger ships. Even better would of course the implementation of Qusi-Newtonian propulsion, like it is done in most mods but it is asking too much.

What I like: Before, there was no much use for heavy-hitting slow reloading weapons like torpedos, WMG, HEM, etc. Fixed EA should really make things more interesting !

[oleg]

Originally posted by steveh11:
How does this all affect Proportions Mod?

Steve.

Good question. Since Proportions uses QNP, small ships should still be important whole game. Fixed EA will add IMHO a new dimension to Proportions' warfare. Can't wait for the patch !

[vonManstein]

Are the existing mods (especially TDM - my favourite one) compatible with the new patch?

[dogscoff]

Are the existing mods (especially TDM - my favourite one) compatible with the new patch?

Ummm... maybe. I suppose it's possible that the new features could have been included without adding the format of the AI files, but unlikely. You'll probably find that existing AIs (ie TDM) will work, but they will generate annoying error Messages and won't use some of the new features.

I'm sure you won't have to wait long for patch-compatible mod updates though: Modders have been waiting to play with this patch for ages and as soon as it's released they'll be on it like hungry wolves=-)

[geoschmo]

Actually I don't think anything in the new patch will cause any sort of errors with exsisting 1.67 compatible races. Most of the changes are just new features that can be used by modders, but aren't required.

Some of the changes will require some AI rework probably. I know most of the races that use the engine killing weapons a lot will probably get tweaked. But you shouldn't get any errors. THey just might be a tad less overwhelming (But not much prolly) until the next TDM release.

Geoschmo

[LGM]

I like the new way that Emissive Armor will work. Stacking would not be good, because it would take small ships out of the game. With it subtracting damage, even multiple ones are good because, when the first armor is gone, you still get emissive effect on later hits on the new emissive armor.

Think of Emissive Armor III being equal to 80, 110, 140, etc points of structural damage, depending on the opponents damage above 30kt. 80 KT is equal in ratio to Armor III, but costs a little more. However, if it takes 3 hits, it is equal to 140 KT which is much better than Armor III. This has made Emmissve armor potentially cost effective, depending on the damage an opponent can do.

Did they fix the problem emmissive armor has against units applying damage as a stack? If not, -30 damage is negligable against a stack of 50 fighters. Now if emissive armor did -30x50 against 50 units, then it would work good.

Also, as weapon mounts get bigger in the game, the -30 factor becomes less beneficial. I can see emissive armor being good against Standard and Large mounts, not Huge or Massive.

The game could use some weapons with real slow rates of fire that do truely massive damage. That might make small ships cost effective. Just like Torpedo boats. You would be willing to sacrifice a Frigate or Destroyer or Drone, if it could really hurt a Dreadnaught or Battleship.

[ August 13, 2002, 19:10: Message edited by: LGM ]

[AJC]

I have a mount mod I used in beta testing I will post tomorrow afternoon once the patch is out.

It has 2 types of shield mounts, miniturization of certain components, improved mounts for direct fire and seeker weapons, armor mount. All are designed for Ships, weapon platforms, Satellites, bases.

All the new mounts will require researching technology already found in the basic games' tech tree. I made it pretty difficult tech to get because ships get pretty tough.

I created two Versions of this mod (I will post both)- one that can be used in existing games - and a Version to be used on new games. The second Version is better organized, cleaned up.

I found when I loaded the organized Version up to an existing game it messed everything in the designs up.

I forgot to mention - the AI uses all the mounts! IF it researches the technologies. Some of the main required tech for the mounts to become active are ; Research III, Computers VI, Physics 4, Advanced Military Science 6. In some intances you will need technology pertaining to the components you want to use the new mounts on. I.E armor, point defense, Shields.

[ August 13, 2002, 22:04: Message edited by: AJC ]

[Atrocities]

I agree Oleg. I for one intend to increase the cost of larger ships in order to promote more "real" game play by the AI.

I hate coming in contact with a fleet of 50 Dreadnoughts and no support ships. I guess the AI is an all or nothing kind of player.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by oleg:
What I do not like : Even before this patch, bigger ships were almost always better then smaller ships. Now, the finally fixed emissive armor emphasize weapon mounts and hence ship size even more. Plus new shield mounts. IMHO, it would be a good idea to increase the cost of bigger ships. Even better would of course the implementation of Qusi-Newtonian propulsion, like it is done in most mods but it is asking too much.

What I like: Before, there was no much use for heavy-hitting slow reloading weapons like torpedos, WMG, HEM, etc. Fixed EA should really make things more interesting !

Most of the changes in the patch have to do with new tools the modders can use to make changes. The mounts and such are there, but not being added to the stock game. The EmArm is a stock game change, but it's not a huge one, and it's more of a bug fix cause I guess it wasn't working right before.

Most mods do NOT use QNP, and most people playing the game don't even use mods. It would be a HUGE mistake to add that to the stock game. Although there is no problem with it being available for the modders if they want it. Actually there are a couple changes that could be made for future patches that would make the QNP work even better in the mods IIRC. Something about RCE's or something. But I seriously hope he never considers changing the stock game this radically.

As far as small ships being uselss, you are missing what in my mind is one of the most important changes in the new patch. The addition of the MAXIMUM tonnage allowed for certain mounts means a modder could make a mount that only works on ships below a certain size, or by using min and max you could make mounts that are only allowed on ONE size. This has the potential for great mods allowing small ships to be kept viable well into the late game.

Geoschmo