Limiting Losses to Air Attack

[DRG]

Originally Posted by jivemi

Does anybody have any advice for saving high-priced armor from air attack? Time and again, in scenarios like Camo's Schwerzer Herzog pair (#28 & 29) and Mr. Lundstrom's WWIII NATO vs Warsaw Pact battles, Russian Su-24's and -25's, MiG-27's, and Hind helos keep blowing up my beloved MBT's and APC's with impunity. After the first few turns most air defenses have been destroyed or expended their ammo so there's practically no way to fight back except with puny AAMG's (had only some mild success with ATGM's against helos).

The standoff attacks with LGB's (laser-guided bombs?) are the worst. In my last scenario (UK vs Sovs, #132) four Su-24's with a total of 16 LGB's whacked a dozen Challengers from afar over maybe 8 turns IIRC. They hardly missed or failed to kill. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Sounds like you had a bad couple of games where the random number generator was not your friend. I just ran an AI vs AI of #28 and at least 2 Grachs were hit 3 times by manpads and the Gepards. There are 6 Grach in that scenario and only 4 made it to the end of turn 1 when I ran my test. and only three of those are available for turn 2........that's 50% effective air loses in the first turn, they destroyed 4 Marders... no Leos

I will admit your compaint was unusual , I normally only hear how aircraft are useless. It was a refreshing change to hear the other side of the coin

Don

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by DRG

Sounds like you had a bad couple of games where the random number generator was not your friend. I just ran an AI vs AI of #28 and at least 2 Grachs were hit 3 times by manpads and the Gepards. There are 6 Grach in that scenario and only 4 made it to the end of turn 1 when I ran my test. and only three of those are available for turn 2........that's 50% effective air loses in the first turn, they destroyed 4 Marders... no Leos

I will admit your compaint was unusual , I normally only hear how aircraft are useless. It was a refreshing change to hear the other side of the coin

Don

Yeah, Koenig****ter (#28) wasn't so bad airwise. Shot down 2 Grach's and damaged at least one more on the first turn, didn't lose any Leopards either. Plus there's only one Su-27 with 2 GM's for standoff attack and no Su-24's. Bigger problem was arty and the Hind attack helos with Kokon ATGM's (only 5 of those, including one E model).

Schandelah (#29) was something else. In addition to a dozen attack helos (6 each, D&E), a dozen Grach's, and 4 MiG-27's, there's also 4 Su-24's for standoff (can't tell from the save if they're armed with 2 GM's or 4 LGB's). By turn 23 (of 30) I'd already lost 24 Leopards and had only a handful left. Only a miracle saved our puny remnants from being overwhelmed by the seemingly endless formations of enemy armor charging to the slaughter.

[chrissandvick]

[quote=jivemi;831804]

Originally Posted by DRG

Schandelah (#29) was something else. In addition to a dozen attack helos (6 each, D&E), a dozen Grach's, and 4 MiG-27's, there's also 4 Su-24's for standoff (can't tell from the save if they're armed with 2 GM's or 4 LGB's). By turn 23 (of 30) I'd already lost 24 Leopards and had only a handful left. Only a miracle saved our puny remnants from being overwhelmed by the seemingly endless formations of enemy armor charging to the slaughter.

I had the same experience as you the first time I played Schandelah #29. The Soviet air in that one is brutal. #28 and #29 are 2 of my favorite scenarios and I've done all kinds of edited versions. In #29 I'm often changing the air side of things so it's a little more one sided in the favor of my panzers.