Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

[Aeraaa]

Another thing that I find impressive is the effectiveness of large caliber artillery in knocking out armored vehicles, even modern MBTs, using HE rounds. That is something almost impossible to do in the game though.

[Mobhack]

Strange, as one of my standard anti-tank tactics is to dump arty on any irritating tigers (ww2) and on through modern times. Even 25 pounders do fine as long as you remember that artillery is best used concentrated.

So if a target is worth attacking, you direct fire-blows onto one target at a time with all (or most) of your field and heavy batteries. That includes 4.2in/120mm mortars.

"One target" means directed into one spot - with a spread of maybe 3-4 hexes max from the centre point.

It may only "blow their socks off" - but any de-tracked AFV stuck in the wrong place are likely to be irrelevant to the game, and can be finished off with tank-hunter parties in the mop-up phase if necessary. Or they may simply get demoralised and the crew bail, so all you then need do is park a little scout car in the same hex for a turn to ensure it burns = full VP for it, and possibly a kill marker for the little scout car if it spots the debussed crew returning and brasses them up as it does this. And tin-can APC have always suffered when subjected to concentrated artillery fires.

Therefore - nothing in the article is really surprising. UK artillery has after all been in the swift concentrations of fire business since c. 1942 (Uncle, Mike, Yoke etc. fire orders - concentrations of fire from regiment all the way up to Army Group Artillery level).

As for UAVs in the game - these are really just spotter plane replacements. Your "Player God" level of battlefield knowledge of the enemy gives you "UAV level" spotting, even in 1930...

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Strange, as one of my standard anti-tank tactics is to dump arty on any irritating tigers (ww2) and on through modern times. Even 25 pounders do fine as long as you remember that artillery is best used concentrated.

So if a target is worth attacking, you direct fire-blows onto one target at a time with all (or most) of your field and heavy batteries. That includes 4.2in/120mm mortars.

"One target" means directed into one spot - with a spread of maybe 3-4 hexes max from the centre point.

It may only "blow their socks off" - but any de-tracked AFV stuck in the wrong place are likely to be irrelevant to the game, and can be finished off with tank-hunter parties in the mop-up phase if necessary. Or they may simply get demoralised and the crew bail, so all you then need do is park a little scout car in the same hex for a turn to ensure it burns = full VP for it, and possibly a kill marker for the little scout car if it spots the debussed crew returning and brasses them up as it does this. And tin-can APC have always suffered when subjected to concentrated artillery fires.

Therefore - nothing in the article is really surprising. UK artillery has after all been in the swift concentrations of fire business since c. 1942 (Uncle, Mike, Yoke etc. fire orders - concentrations of fire from regiment all the way up to Army Group Artillery level).

I believe a Royal artillery maxim is "Hit it, don't tap it."

[Aeraaa]

I know what you mean and I also use arty this way (if anything the fact that it separates enemy tanks from their supporting infantry, the suppression and the potential mobility kill all worth it). I mean arty used the way the author of the article says ie 122mm SPGs knocking the turret off T64s in direct fire (in game terms that would mean that the target is destroyed I guess, no?). I have never ever knocked out that kind of target with a frontal turret hit firing in direct mode.

I do agree with what you say about the UAVs, the player already has TOO much of battlefield awareness as it is.

[Suhiir]

The upcoming reduction in smoke given off by unspotted artillery/mortars will help this a bit.

[Imp]

I dont see anything unexpected in this at all, Russian units are now more flexible but still tend to stick to the plan. Decent Russian equipment is just that we should stop underestimating it like we have done for the last 40 years or so, ERA works ATGM counter measures work.
They have ECM capabilities & there battlefield awareness is getting there.
The Russians have known what artillery is capable of since forever basically & now using the TOS system with thermobaric warheads being dug in is far less helpful to survival. If the heat doesn't get you the lack of air to breath probably will.
Seems to me everything they were bad at they now do better, sometimes with the Wests help. We cant compete on the TI front so lets buy the stuff & no doubt reverse engineer it to see where we are going wrong.
Luckily your probably looking at only a percentage of their forces being well trained & equipped, that's a big pool to pull your best guys from & give the good stuff to.
So going back to WW1 & the disregard for human life the rest are cannon fodder to deplete stores.
If they ever went up against the USA I would send the canon fodder in first & let them use all the expensive ATGMs etc against them then send in the good guys not the other way round due to their overkill approach.

[Paulus_PAK]

There're two quotes from Heinz Guderian himself, about concentration of forces (although not about artillery per se):
Nicht Kleckern sondern Klotzen! (Boot 'em, don't spatter 'em!)
Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern. (You hit somebody with your fist and not with your fingers spread.)

[Suhiir]

Most times artillery ammo is not sufficient to lay down a rolling barrage for the last couple km prior to contact with the expected opposition main line of resistance.

Artillery in generally used where you know, or VERY strongly suspect the the opposition is. That usually means you've spotted them with scouts/UAVs or taken fire from a position.

Now something like a pre-planned offensive you've spent months preparing for, sure, you've had time to stockpile trainloads of artillery ammo.

[Aeraaa]

I've played some games with a force composed of a small unit of tanks/armored infantry and a ton of artillery. While seeing the fireworks is great fun, the truth is that you don't defeat the enemy quicker than a traditional larger force composed of more maneuver elements. Most of the game is, make slow gains with your scouts/advance guard, spot the enemy and send him into orbit with your arty/air force. It is a slow, methodical kind of battle and needs extra attention and planning. In addition to that, you REALLY have to be careful not to take many casualties, the force is too small to be effective after losing a significant number of men. In reality, modern armies are casualty averse, hence these kind of forces make sense. But in the game, I've enjoyed games with a larger force more.