Specific vs common sensors ?

[dogscoff]

And ECM - that was mentioned earlier. Each ship that you want to make hard to hit should have an ECM.

[tbontob]

Mucho Gracias Fyron

I was using “efficient” in the sense that each ship in the fleet
-a) must have (i.e. no choice) the offensive/defensive capability for which the sensor was designed for and
-b) there would be minimum redundancy in order to achieve the maximum offensive/defensive capability possible with the least expenditure.

In a real game, there is no “ must have ” requirement but trade-offs since what is most advantageous would depend upon the purpose for which the ships were designed, and ultimately, the circumstances in which they find themselves.

Basically, I wanted to determine what was theoretically possible before getting into the practicalities. Your answers were very apropos.

Now for the practicalities….
=1) you say

---4) the scanner jammer.
Generally, it doesn't matter if the enemy can see what is on your ship. Cargo-carrying ships can make good use of these though.

I understand SE4 does not use “cheats” to help the AI. If so, then it could not know the composition of a ship unless it has a effective long range scanner and without it, wouldn’t know the difference between a cruiser with weapons and a supply ship with a cruiser body (no weapons or just a pop gun). So, isn’t it of assistance to the enemy AI to determine whether a ship is a threat or not. And doesn’t our AI (in strategic mode) use it, if only to determine its priorities based on our selection of “have weapons/doesn’t have weapons” or “strongest/weakest”

I can see where the AI would find it useful for cargo ships…they would automatically flee to one of the corners.

2) You also say

-------b) cloak our fleet
No. You need either Stealth Armor or a Cloaking Device on each ship to cloak the fleet. Scanners only defeat enemy cloaks, not cloak your own ships.

Yes like scattering armor to defeat long range scanners and stealth armor to defeat level 1 active/passive scanners

Could you list the various devices which are available to cloak a ship and to defeat the probes of enemy ships?

On a totally unrelated topic, you say:

Hit the Edit Post button.

Is this in reference to my correction. If so, I can't find it...where is it?

[tbontob]

Dogscoff say:

And ECM - that was mentioned earlier. Each ship that you want to make hard to hit should have an ECM.

Quite right...forgot about ECM

When this is all said and done, I am thinking of putting this all together in one easy to read list.

[tbontob]

Re:

Hit the Edit Post button.

Found it under the "Edit" button

[Suicide Junkie]

Now for the practicalities….
1) Long Range Scanners
...

When you are in combat, you can see the components and cargo of a ship no matter what. In these cases, "long range" scanners are redundant, and Scanner Jammers are defeated.
In fact, cloaked ships in the same sector as a combat will also be detected. (If no combat occurs, the cloaked ships can slip past unnoticed)

quote:

---

2) You also say

-------b) cloak our fleet
No. You need either Stealth Armor or a Cloaking Device on each ship to cloak the fleet. Scanners only defeat enemy cloaks, not cloak your own ships.

Yes like scattering armor to defeat long range scanners and stealth armor to defeat level 1 active/passive scanners

Could you list the various devices which are available to cloak a ship and to defeat the probes of enemy ships?

---

He did.
Stealth armor.... or "Cloaking Device". That's it in the unmodded game.
Storms can add cloaking, but they aren't a device.

[ August 15, 2002, 16:40: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[tbontob]

Suicide Junkie says:

When you are in combat, you can see the components and cargo of a ship no matter what. In these cases, "long range" scanners are redundant, and Scanner Jammers are defeated

Hmmmm...then long range scanners and scanner jammers only have a use prior to combat? Like whether to flee or attempt to engage in combat?

In fact, cloaked ships in the same sector as a combat will also be detected. (If no combat occurs, the cloaked ships can slip past unnoticed)

By detected, I assume you mean their components and cargo are shown.

He did.
Stealth armor.... or "Cloaking Device".

You are right...I didn't realize the "cloaking device" was a real component and thought Fyron was using it in a generic way to refer to a class of cloaking devices.

[Fyron]

Hmmmm...then long range scanners and scanner jammers only have a use prior to combat? Like whether to flee or attempt to engage in combat?

Once you have encountered a ship design in combat once, you can always see it's design later. So, scanner jammers on non-cargo ships are only useful for brand-new, top secret designs. Once you use the ships, the enemy will always be able to know their designs. After the enemy has seen your ships in combat, the only thing that the scanner jammer can do is prevent them from seeing if your ships are damaged or not and what cargo (if any) they carry.

By detected, I assume you mean their components and cargo are shown.

Cloaked ships are hidden on the strategic map outside of combat (unless the enemy has an appropriate level tachyon-type scanner, of course). Once in combat, the cloaking device does nothing for the ship. Stealth Armor still provides the +5, 10 or 15 to hit penalty, but the cloaking aspect doesn't function during combat.