Mount Mod for v1.78

[PvK]

I haven't had time to try playing a game with these mounts yet. I just read through the file.

I know what you mean about wanting to limit the number of mounts that appear on the pick list. That's another reason in favor of addind new tech areas just for mounts, so players only see mounts that they asked for through research. That, also, is one way to control which mounts the AI uses (if you mod the AI's) : if mounts have specific tech area requirements that don't overlap with other research paths, then you can have the AI research file specify which mounts they will research, and therefore, which mounts they will use. Of course, this means moddng the AI files, which may be beyond the scope of what you want to do in a mount mod.

The other way to control which mods the AI uses is to order them in the component enhancement file. The AI always choses the valid mount that appears lowest in that file. That can be used to give the AI default preferences, and as you know, by adding "ordinary" mounts below ones the AI shouldn't use, you can keep the AI from using mounts that are best for human designs only. (You do this with your "Normal Component" mount).

In reviewing your mounts again, I'm noticing that actually they seem more balanced than I remember thinking they were on my first reading of them.

However, here's a specific example of the sort of thing I meant:

Long Name := Pulsed Gatling Mount
Short Name := Pgat Mount
Description := 20% of cost of normal, 10% size, 20% damage, +20% to hit. 50kt min. Used to imitate a 'gatling' effect.
Code := PGat
Cost Percent := 20
Tonnage Percent := 10
Tonnage Structure Percent := 10
Damage Percent := 20
Supply Percent := 10
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 20
Vehicle Size Minimum := 50
Weapon Type Requirement := Direct Fire
Vehicle Type := Ship/Base/Satellite/Weapon Platform
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Smaller Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 3

In this case, Smaller Weapons is a fairly cheap tech that I (at least - can't speak for others) usually reasearch relatively early on. In this case, when I hit level 3, I would notice that with this mount I can suddenly cram twice as much firepower in the same space, halve my supply use per damage, and get a +20 to-hit mod, on all weapons.

In this case, I'd suggest adding an research-expensive tech area for Gatling Mounts to cover this and the earlier Gatling mounts you've put under Smaller Weapons. I'd also give them a range mod of -1 or -2, and change the supply mod of this one from 10 to 40-100 (gatling weapons, to follow the real-Earth analogy, consume [and waste] massive quantities of ammo).

PvK

[Deathstalker]

"In reviewing your mounts again, I'm noticing that actually they seem more balanced than I remember thinking they were on my first reading of them.

However, here's a specific example of the sort of thing I meant:

Long Name := Pulsed Gatling Mount
Short Name := Pgat Mount
Description := 20% of cost of normal, 10% size, 20% damage, +20% to hit. 50kt min. Used to imitate a 'gatling' effect.
Code := PGat
Cost Percent := 20
Tonnage Percent := 10
Tonnage Structure Percent := 10
Damage Percent := 20
Supply Percent := 10
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 20
Vehicle Size Minimum := 50
Weapon Type Requirement := Direct Fire
Vehicle Type := Ship/Base/Satellite/Weapon Platform
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Smaller Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 3

In this case, Smaller Weapons is a fairly cheap tech that I (at least - can't speak for others) usually reasearch relatively early on. In this case, when I hit level 3, I would notice that with this mount I can suddenly cram twice as much firepower in the same space, halve my supply use per damage, and get a +20 to-hit mod, on all weapons.

In this case, I'd suggest adding an research-expensive tech area for Gatling Mounts to cover this and the earlier Gatling mounts you've put under Smaller Weapons. I'd also give them a range mod of -1 or -2, and change the supply mod of this one from 10 to 40-100 (gatling weapons, to follow the real-Earth analogy, consume [and waste] massive quantities of ammo)."

Actually PvK that is a mount from my mod (Deathstalker's Mount Mod) not AJC's Mount Mod. But your concerns are noted and welcomed. I am still balancing some of the mounts and I agree with your 'massive ammo used' and the range restrictions. Will probally add them with the next Version. I have not added 'New' technologies mainly for the reason that I wanted my Mount Mod to be added to any basic se4 game, its mainly there to provide many new options without having to massively rescript the tech area and AI's that have to use the new tech.

AJC, good to see that I have some 'competition'

I rather like some of your mounts (esp the computer mount, nicely done btw).

Rather curious as to what you think of my Mount Mod. Any suggestions?? (comments/critisims)?

[AJC]

thank you very much! I guess am a rogue modder, I usually just stick mods out there and never hear anything about them.

I prefer to think of modding , as no so much a competition but as a collaborative effort to improve the base game and add to the fun.

One of these days a vote should be held to determine the top features of the most used mods. Then the best of each mod should be absorbed into a single custom mod.

If you like any of those mounts you should incorporate them into yours!

I have actually been playing with the DeathStalker mount mod in a PBW game. Since I am not very familiar the mounts I have struggled a bit trying to determine which ones are the best to use , and which mounts can be used on what.

This is mainly because the list of mounts is so long and I havent actually studied DS Mount Mod in detail.

Since you say your working on balance, you should be pleased with the new abilities on mounts. It will allow you to do alot of cool things with the mod as you are working with it.

Things I felt important to consider with the mounts.

1. watching the cost increase to components when placed on a mount. Keep an eye on the economic impact to the AIs build rate. Making them too costly really slows the AI down.

2. Making sure that the mounts are not so easy to get that they would be overwhelming the early techs usually gained in the early stages of the game.

(This drove the decision to make it difficult to get the mounts. It can only be done through prolonged research efforts. To get the specialized mounts early would require extreme efforts in research, which would impact a players empires expansion rate in the game. )

3. Find a way to counter the Computer virus/ Allegiance Subverter combination. Computer mounts.

[Spoo]

Long Name := Pulsed Gatling Mount
...
20% damage
...

Let's not forget about emmisive armor.

[AJC]

I dont have a pulse gattling mount in my mount mod -that's DeathStalkers mount ..

None of the mounts in my Mount mod decrease damage when applied to weapons.

[ September 02, 2002, 19:58: Message edited by: AJC ]

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by AJC:
I would suggest making a copy of TDM and just renaming it slightly. Then put the mount mod , CompEnhancements.txt into the TDM mods Data folder. that way you dont affect your original TDM mod in any way.

If you use it , please let me know how it goes I am very interested!

thanks

I'm finally to the point in my game where I finally acquired all of the research so I can get all of the necessary requirements. I like what you have done. This was the first time I've played the MountMod, so I can't compare this Version to an earlier Version. But it does make it more interesting when you're building a ship. Great job.

[PvK]

Sorry AJC - as you saw, I got your mount mod confused with Deathstalker's.

I guess some of what I said applies to yours, too, however. Looking over your mount mod again, I think it would be interesting and fun to play with, though my concerns/suggestions would mainly be:

1) The effects are pretty sudden in some cases. For instance, I'd prefer to have miniaturization come in a series of levels instead of suddenly being able to half-size components. Of course, it might get to be a hassle to have too many, since they all go in the "mounts" list. Maybe at least add a 75% miniaturization mount available before the 50% one.

2) Some of the mounts are just clearly better than not using them, so there is no choice involved. Advanced shields and advanced weapons in particular allow great improvements to performance per kT AND cost less than full-size components, so there doesn't seem to be a choice involved in whether to use them.

3) The tech level requirements don't really fit my imagination of what they represent. I don't get why computers, military science, and applied research would result in sudden multipliers to the abilities of certain components.

An example:

Long Name := Advanced Shield Generator Mount
Short Name := Adv Shield Mount
Description := Increases shield strength by 300%. Reduces size of shield generator by 25%. Requires ship or base size of at least 150Kt.
Code := Gx
Cost Percent := 200
Tonnage Percent := 75
Tonnage Structure Percent := 100
Damage Percent := 0
Shield Percent := 300
Supply Percent := 0
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 150
Comp Family Requirement := 11
Weapon Type Requirement := None
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Number of Tech Req := 5
Tech Area Req 1 := Shields
Tech Level Req 1 := 6
Tech Area Req 2 := Physics
Tech Level Req 2 := 3
Tech Area Req 3 := Advanced Military Science
Tech Level Req 3 := 5
Tech Area Req 4 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 4 := 3
Tech Area Req 5 := Computers
Tech Level Req 5 := 4

This is a steep 400+% increase in performance per kT, and it also cuts 1/3 off the cost per shield point, at the same time. So there is almost never a reason to not use this mount, so there is no tradeoff to decide about. My suggestion would be to make it actually cost more per shield point to use a mount like this, because of the massive shield/kT advantage - so you could get much stronger shields, or have more room to make a more powerful single ship with other components, but it would cost more. As it is, the main choice offered is when to try to get all the required research to achieve the mount - then always use it.

PvK