Wishlist: The Next World War

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Imp

How would that work you still see the overall picture so can react to it.

You only see what your units see. If an enemy is in view of a unit you see it. If he is out of view you don't see it.

Similar to the T key, you can target what is in view.

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[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by shahadi

You only see what your units see. If an enemy is in view of a unit you see it. If he is out of view you don't see it.

Similar to the T key, you can target what is in view.

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Isn't that how it works now? or am I missing something?

[Suhiir]

I've used similar systems (a squad level game I had in the late 80's I no longer recall the name of) in the past and they can work fairly well to represent the initiative generally demonstrated at smaller tactical unit levels.

But to represent Command & Control? Maybe ...

It might work well if a military uses a centrally organized structure and deviation from "The Plan" is discouraged, i.e. the classic Soviet system, because because lower level commanders aren't taught, encouraged, or permitted to exercise independent judgement. But to assume all military organizations work that way couldn't be further from the truth. SAS, SEALs, Spetsnaz, and similar forces are expected to act based on their own judgement and assessment of the situation. A loss of links to higher command has zero effect on their ability to act, yes, it may well degrade (severely) their ability to act in the most efficient manner and time, but their ability to act ... not a whit.

I'm biased, always have been, I was a Jarhead, we're also taught to assess situations and act without waiting for orders. So I have a certain amount of difficulty comprehending not operating that way.

[Mobhack]

I could code the game so that if you select Bill, then only the units known to Bill would show on the map, swap to Fred and only his contact list appears. Save games would then jump by 2000 bytes times 2000 to add an individual LOS list to all units, or thereabouts. We would then have to code in some fancy contact-passing rules so that Bill could eventually tell Fred about his contact #121, say faster if they were in the same platoon, and neither was suppressed, or whatever.

However, the player is free to jump around the units to his hearts content for as long as he feels is necessary to build up a picture. As he does so he will integrate each unit's displayed target list in his brain Mk 1.0. And then he will happily jump to Observer Pete, who has none of Fred's or Bill's targets in his LOS list (yet) and plot a bombardment on what looks like empty space to Pete when he is selected, but the player knows is occupied by Fritz in his Tiger.

Hence the simple model used by SP - once detected and in LOS, the target is available to everyone. No vast amount of extra saved data, no fancy target-passing rules. Because the player will effectively bypass all of that stuff. And the AI does too, because individual LOS lists would add layers of complexity, and its having a hard enough time as is.

Now if there was an option to turn it off and use the "one sees all sees" basic model then 95+% of end users would.

Same as the optional orders system of SP3 - 95%+ of end users never bothered to even switch it on. Which is why it never made it here, as the coding effort is not worth the hassle for what would be a niche option that just a few die-hard grognards would utilise. But I rather liked it, as it was a system that showed off the advantage of the Germans in 1940 vs say the French, with the Germans able to switch the target marker about much more readily than the staid French player, the latter therefore being more tied to his "grand battle plan" pre-laid out at the start. But 99% of end users just want to charge around the battlefield as they wish and blast stuff..

[Aeraaa]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Same as the optional orders system of SP3 - 95%+ of end users never bothered to even switch it on. Which is why it never made it here, as the coding effort is not worth the hassle for what would be a niche option that just a few die-hard grognards would utilise. But I rather liked it, as it was a system that showed off the advantage of the Germans in 1940 vs say the French, with the Germans able to switch the target marker about much more readily than the staid French player, the latter therefore being more tied to his "grand battle plan" pre-laid out at the start. But 99% of end users just want to charge around the battlefield as they wish and blast stuff..

I have to say the SP3 system sounds VERY appealing to me as well.

[DRG]

Yes BUT as Andy said

95%+ of end users never bothered to even switch it on. Which is why it never made it here, as the coding effort is not worth the hassle for what would be a niche option that just a few die-hard grognards would utilise.

and that still holds true now.....There's a cadre of players who what to pile complexity onto the game in the name of "realism" that would kill the interest in the game for the actual majority that DO play it and enjoy it as it is now and if a complex " fog of war" option was what the majority of players wanted we'd have heard about it a LOT more than we do

[Mobhack]

Yep, and then if there was an orders system and commanders got special command points then the special nations would need compensation, i.e. more expensive leaders.

The game does not charge anything for leaders ATM. And that would get complaints from players that they were having to spend more for German platoons, companies etc, and the Soviets less, for a system they did not utilise.

Heck when I played 1/300 at national level in the 70s and 80s, one of the first things players lobbied for was not to have to buy night fighting gear since all competition battles were meeting engagements in good quality daylight. Only TI was charged for when we moved onto the TTG "Challenger" rules which allowed some visibility through smoke with them - I think the older WRG 1950+ rules did not even have thermals.

We dont enforce army lists either. Though some PBEM leagues have some sort of house rules as to what is gamey. One of my first competition games was WW2 and one player turned up with 99% off-map arty (which he did not have to buy models of!) and a FO team... next year, basic army lists were in play. (That happened in the early Warhammer nationals too - someone's entire army in year 1 was 1 (one) invisible dragon with no model required, he just plotted where it was on some paper. A very economic army, once again - and there were army lists in play the next year there too!)