Cross country speeds

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

I'm not sure how everybody , including us, seems to have missed the BT series speeds being low for so long....

Maybe it's because they are almost perfectly correct (apart from BT-7M)
According to Russian books by Baryatynski/Kolomiets (Bronyekollektsya series), both BT-2/BT-5 developed 52 km/h on tracks (ie 17) and 72 km/h on wheels, BT-7: 53 (ie 17.6) and 73 km/h and BT-7M: 62 (ie 20.6) and 86 km/h respectively.
Obviously, these tanks could go on wheels on roads only.

Mihail Svirin gives the same figures for BT-2/BT-5, and off road speed 32 / 33. For BT-7 he gives 51.6 km/h (ie 17), for BT-7M also 62.

High figures, exceeding 100 km/h, probably come only from one of Christie's prototypes.


BTW: speaking of BT, there was no such thing as BT-2a (unit 115) and BT-5a (unit 95) - only BT-7A with short 76mm gun (there were only two experimental BT-2 tested with 76mm guns in different turrets).
Formations 005 and 124 must be modified accordingly... It seems however, that there should be no BT-7A in each company, because eg. 23rd Brigade, during attack on Poland, had 206 BT-7 and 3 BT-7A... And in 1940 there were only 104 BT-7A in a whole army (for over 5000 BT-7).

Unit 003 BT-7a should have capital letter, carried only 50 rounds of ammo, and was armed with #034 76mm L16 KT-28, not L-10 L/26

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Maybe it's because they are almost perfectly correct (apart from BT-7M)
According to Russian books by Baryatynski/Kolomiets (Bronyekollektsya series), both BT-2/BT-5 developed 52 km/h on tracks (ie 17) and 72 km/h on wheels, BT-7: 53 (ie 17.6) and 73 km/h and BT-7M: 62 (ie 20.6) and 86 km/h respectively.
Obviously, these tanks could go on wheels on roads only.

Mihail Svirin gives the same figures for BT-2/BT-5, and off road speed 32 / 33. For BT-7 he gives 51.6 km/h (ie 17), for BT-7M also 62.

Gee..... you mean people who post here quoting "authoritative sources" might actually be completely wrong ?? I'm shocked..........

What I think I needed to do about 4 years ago was tell people if they don't like what they see then use MOBHack and quite making useless work for me . What you are telling us here is most of his stats are questionable

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

Gee..... you mean people who post here quoting "authoritative sources" might actually be completely wrong ?? I'm shocked..........

What I think I needed to do about 4 years ago was tell people if they don't like what they see then use MOBHack and quite making useless work for me . What you are telling us here is most of his stats are questionable

Actually, the rest might be OK, but I wouldn't trust Chamberlain and other Western authors writing about Soviet tanks, using probably some obsolete third-hand or fourth-hand sources. Besides, it's hard to be an expert on all countries. New Russian sources (=after a fall of communism) seem more credible here, I guess. The same is with German tanks (although they were always popular) - when I want to know something, I better trust Jentz.

Anyway, I hope it's good, that I checked it...

[Kiwikkiwik]

Originally Posted by DRG

Gee..... you mean people who post here quoting "authoritative sources" might actually be completely wrong.....What you are telling us here is most of his stats are questionable

To be quite honest I feel like my credibility is being attacked here.
All the values are from the books quoted. Not made up by me.
I have most of the Jentz panzer tract books, and most of the German speeds match those.
I think I noted Jentz as one of my sources origionally but that has fallen off.
Is Him me?
I never said authoratative I said published.
I agree the Max speeds are mostly right, I am posting about the cross country speeds that mostly arnt.(According to these books, I know there are other sources that I dont have.)
What I am saying is tank crosscountry speeds clearly aren't half of max speed for all the tanks in WW2! I am trying to show how many and by how much they do deviate. It a sort of survey
I also said that I thought the max speed quoted for BTs was with the tracks off.
I see your problem with scenarios, but changing swim speed to crosscountry speed wouldn't affect any scenarios?
With the scenario problem,
Maybe issue only the new scenarios with each version and remove all the others? People that play the scenarios would have time to play them all beween patches?
Similar to how you have to finish PBEM before patching, you have to finish Scenarios before patching.
How many people play the old scenarios? I dont play any scenarios.
or remove the affected scenarios? or scenario designers upgrade them?
If there was a way around the Scenario problem maybe you could do Pibwl's changes and eventually there wouldnt be hardly any left to do?
I think lots of people like the game because of all the tiny detail. It would be a shame to waste Pibwl's work.
Just Dreaming sorry for any stress caused.