The Future for SE IV? Does it have one?

[dumbluck]

BB: Hmmm. On the "Fire, then move thing": Ok, I see what you mean now. I must not have been thinking clearly.

Now, the only hard-code change (that I can see) you need for your "impulse system" is to have engines that can give fractional moves/combat turn. You'd need an engine that gave you, say, 1 move every 6 turns, (and 2 engines gave 2 per 6 turns, etc). Then you could just mod the game to work like you've proposed.

Or am I missing something else now....

EDIT: Actually, all components that generate only 1 "somethings" per combat turn would need to be modded for fractional generation/turn, not just engines. Shield Regenerators, for example.

EDIT AGAIN: umm actually, that second engine should make it 1 move every 3 turns, huh?

[ August 21, 2002, 14:34: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
Now, the only hard-code change (that I can see) you need for your "impulse system" is to have engines that can give fractional moves/combat turn. You'd need an engine that gave you, say, 1 move every 6 turns, (and 2 engines gave 2 per 6 turns, etc). Then you could just mod the game to work like you've proposed.

Or am I missing something else now....

EDIT: Actually, all components that generate only 1 "somethings" per combat turn would need to be modded for fractional generation/turn, not just engines. Shield Regenerators, for example.

EDIT AGAIN: umm actually, that second engine should make it 1 move every 3 turns, huh?

Well, yes, as you say, if MM just did the coding so that you could assign things fractional combat-turn frequencies it would be pretty close. Assuming changing the "Number Of Space Combat Turns" in settings.txt actually does anything (I never tried it).

It would also be better if the combat speed of a ship was not 1/2 the strategic speed, so the "finer gradations" of speed would count for something in battle. Of course, if the implementation was via giving engines a separate ability for combat speed and strategic speed, with fractional abilities allowed in combat speeds, that would do it. Except not halving the combat speed would effectively cut the combat map area to 1/4 of present. Unless we also got a retreat rule I would not like that - too easy for slower ships to "corner" faster ones that don't want to fight. So, idealy the size of the combat map would go up or become moddable.

In combat today, the fastest thing is combat speed 10 (a fighter with 9 Small Quantum Engines, an Afterburner III and the Propulsion Experts racial trait). That says 10 impulses would work, meaning 300 "impulse" turns per battle and we'd need fractional combat movement points & recharge rates in 0.1 increments. That is actually pretty clean - no need to mess with the map, just the ability to specify combat speed generation separately from strategic for everything (engines, components that give movement bonuses, vehicle hulls that give movement bonuses, the Propulsion Experts racial trait bonus) and have it accept values in 0.1 increments. This could probably be done in a patch. Then the mod would just divide everything by 10 except the "Number Of Space Combat Turns", which it would multiply by 10, and we'd be off to the races.

However, without also highlighting which units can move/fire this turn it might a bit awkward to use. It also would not skip turns where nothing could move or fire. Those issues are potentially patchable, though. A simple box around the square of something that could move or fire would do - say red if it can fire, yellow if it can move, orange if it can do both. Lack of any boxes showing would cue you to click "end turn". It doesn't get to simultaneous fire resolution, either, so the first guy to move in range still gets an advantage.

If, aside from afterburners which only work in combat, we wanted strategic & combat speeds to be the same then the maximum combat speed would be 19, the map needs to be doubled in every dimension just to hold our ground on the "cornering" issue, and the numbers don't work out so neat. Probably too messy for a patch, but for SEV

[dumbluck]

OK, BB, now my head hurts. Cut that out!

Seriously, why would you want reload rates in fractions? You'd want reload rates in multiples. After all, if there are 10 impulses in what now constitutes a turn, a CSM has a 30 impulse reload rate. APB has a reload rate of 10 impulses. Surely you don't want to have anything with a reload rate of 1 impulse!!! (can you say, "uber-weapon"? )

[Pax]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
OK, BB, now my head hurts. Cut that out!

Seriously, why would you want reload rates in fractions? You'd want reload rates in multiples. After all, if there are 10 impulses in what now constitutes a turn, a CSM has a 30 impulse reload rate. APB has a reload rate of 10 impulses. Surely you don't want to have anything with a reload rate of 1 impulse!!! (can you say, "uber-weapon"? )

With a turn-length of 10 impulses, you might want a low-damage PDC with a reload cycle of 2 impulses (5 shots per turn), to represent a fast-firing, ultra-low-caliber defensive weapon. Or halve it's damage and give it a reload cycle of 1 impulse. Bang away every impulse, for piddling damage. Would be nice in that, for low to-hit situations, at least SOME of your PDC would hit every turn,a nd eventually ... it'd rack up some damage, which is better than none, on every impulse.

AND ... that'd make Fighters with Emissive Armor more interesting; if those 1-per-impulse PDC did 5 damage each, then, Small EmAr III would become -very- useful. Yet the PDC, even if it hit a non-EmAr target, would only do 50 damage over the whole turn, so it'd not be ludicrously overpowered IMO. Especially if much-shorter-range than normal PDC.

[dogscoff]

say red if it can fire, yellow if it can move, orange if it can do both.

Or maybe some other colours completely, since some ppl have troubling distinguishing between those three...

Chromatic nitpick aside... you wouldn't have to have fractional shield regeneration. If the minimum of 1 shield point regenerated per impulse is still too high, just multiply all shield, weapon & damage Ratings up by a common factor (say 10) and then recalculate the number of impulses needed for regenerators.

In other words, the minimum of 10 shield points regeneration per turn wouldn't be a big deal, if a shield generator I produced 500 points and a DUC I did 150 damage.

[Suicide Junkie]

What's the big deal about the minimum regen rate?

Just have a 5 point/turn regenerator provide one point every other impulse.
Or, equivalently have a reload rate for regenerators.