Early weaonry?

[Krsqk]

Torps don't have a bonus in vanilla SEIV, at least v1.67.

Depending on game setup MBs and PPBs can be a tossup for what to research. With high (or even medium) tech cost, shields are so expensive to research that phased shields will likely be very long in coming. Of course, most players will counter PPBs with stacks of Armor III, which has better protection/kt than anything below Shields lvl 8 (against phased weapons). (This tactic is dangerous when Crystalline races are in the area.)

60kt of MBs do slightly more damage at max range compared to PPBs (105/100), while using 40% less in supplies. This can extend the range of a fleet greatly. Of course, PPBs have higher damage at close range (105/120), but then the opponent could pack on Ripper Beams, which do 150 damage out to range 3. Races with Ripper Beams are also likely to have an advantage in speed, because of the Propulsion tech req for High-Energy Discharge Weapons.

[dissertation] For that matter, races electing to research PPBs will likely have a research deficit in other areas. Those points could be put into Astrophysics and Stellar Harnessing for Solar Sails, or Propulsion, to get an edge in speed; they could be sunk into shields, to get Phased Shields; Armor gets a +30% to defense pretty cheaply; Combat Support gets you ECM; Combat Sensors makes you hit more often than the PPBs; etc., ad nauseum.

PPBs are powerful, but not exactly uber-weapons. They have counters, which have come out more quickly since the advent of the PPB as the PBW weapon-du-jour. Playstyles evolve, and next we'll see the Graviton Hellbore as the ultimate weapon. (Okay, maybe not. )

Top-end APBs definitely are the weapon to go for; but by the time you can afford to get APB XIII (where range outstrips MB VI) or IX (where damage finally catches up to MB VI), you're probably in the late mid-game, or the end-game (or you're so far behind in other areas that you're near your own end-game ). APBs also are 50% larger than MBs, so you need to get APB XI or XII to get close to the same dmg/kt at the same range.
[/dissertation]

I hope I didn't kick off another uber-weapon debate.

[Growltigga]

Question: what use is a graviton hellbore?

[pathfinder]

GT: to bore the h**l outta gravity, what else?

Java: try different things, find some method/tactic/setup(s) that seem to fit your style. I still haven't found that special setup...yet

[ August 20, 2002, 15:01: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[DirectorTsaarx]

Originally posted by Growltigga:
Question: what use is a graviton hellbore?

Range 8 (at max tech, obviously). Of course, the damage is really attenuated at that distance, but if you put it on a weapon platform (or even a base), with mounts that provide even more range and/or combat bonuses, it's pretty effective.

[oleg]

Due to less punch per shot, MB are less effective than APB or PPB against ships with lots of crystalline armor and/or emissive armor.
Large mounts attenuates it, but one can always use custom mounts.

[LGM]

I like DUC V early in the game. However, I will use CSMs or organic Parasites if my opponent does not have adequate point defenses on his ships. DUCs V will server you quite well until you get PPBs or Null Space weapons. Null Space are costly in Min & Rad, so they will build slower, but a must if you face Organic and Crystalline armor. Might be more important if players use the improved Emissive armor more. If you opponent uses Shields, PPBs are the good replacement for DUCs. A couple of the Organic weapons have a nice Damage/KT ratio as well. I have never cared much for the Graviton Hellbore weapon because at long range they do so poorly, but max level at 225K research, might make this a good weapon against emissive armor, if you can close to Point Blank: 145 Damage - 30 Emissive is nice compared to PPB (60 - 30). Quantum Torps look nice against emissive. Late in the game, you will want WMGs against emissive armor. I really like the improvement of Emissive armor as Dam/KT is not as import as Dam/Hit is now a consideration to be balanced against it.

[Fyron]

Graviton Hellbores have no use. They do about half the damage of APBs, and have the same range.

Emmisive Armor is easily countered by mounts. A large mount PPB V does 120-100 dmg. That can breach Emmissive Armor in a single shot.

As such, Torpedoes, like Graviton Hellbores, are pretty useless.

The key to APBs is that you don't research them in the early-mid game. Use DUCs, then PPBs, then APBs + Shield Depleters (not Disruptors).